CEL and Shutter Demons are back

[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

I've searched and only found a shutter under acceleration, I have a shutter at cruising and a few other intermittent issues. Here's the list:
•Shutter with light pressure on throttle around 60 mph/1600rpm
•Off throttle to WOT complete loss of power/ dead pedal
•Random (unrepeatable) CEL every couple weeks or when its raining for "misfire detected on Startup P0316"
•Occasional (somewhat repeatable) CEL under hard acceleration for "O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 1 P0131" and "O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage Bank 2 Sensor 1 P0151"
(This is just my drivability list, I have some suspension issues to check out and the brakes are acting up again, but that's a story for another day, I'm just losing patience.)

The shutter is by far the biggest concern, the CEL codes go away after a run cycle but when the shutter starts it feels like a wheel is about to fall off, its violent and shakes the wheel and i can hear the CV axles crying from the extremely rapid load and unload. is it torque converter flutter? is it an air leak? is it bag coil/plugs? it comes and goes and the last time it happened it popped a flashing CEL with misfire on 2, i inspected the plugs (3k on them at the time, 10k now) and they still looked new, barely any brazing, I switched the coil to 5 to see if the problem followed and it stopped completely. now its back to its old tricks but no CEL at the time of the shutter.

The WOT issue is random and usually unrepeatable but that is covered elsewhere and I'm suspecting the TPS for that one, the reason I listed some less severe and common issues is so the big brains around here can see the whole picture and maybe its all related? who wants another list? here's one of everything I've done to the car and what ford did right before i bought it

•Oil change and tire rotate and balance 4500 miles ago
•K/N drop in filter
•Catch Can
•Plugs 10k miles ago (Ford)
•Diff, Trans, and PTU fluid 15K miles ago (Ford)
•Water pump 15k miles ago (Ford)
I have inspected all 4 corner wheel bearings, control arms, and axle shafts, all within range with the exception of a little extra play in Passenger Rear axle shaft, I have checked all clamps for Vacuum and intake tubes. I broke the mount for the noise maker the day i bought it because I had no idea what it was or how it was attached but its still installed. The car a 2013 non PP and is stock with all OEM electronics and no tune. I have to wait 2 weeks before I can get the car to a lift but I have forscan and I can look topside this weekend. any direction helps, I want to rule out transmission/ torque converter but if that's the consensus I suppose Ill start a piggy bank, I have a long trip this summer and need the car to be ready.

 

[kryptto]

What happens if you drive her in D- S mode? Also those CV joints could be a problem.

Got a GOPRO?

 

[Joshw0000]

Check your transmission fluid to make sure it's not low or overfilled. If it's good, try putting one or 2 vials of Shudder Fix in the transmission. If that fixes the issue and it comes back in time it's most likely the torque converter. From what you posted, that's probably not the issue but it's cheap enough to try and won't hurt anything.

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[Joshw0000]

Also take the noise maker off and plug it with a Dorman plug. That'll rule out any leaks.

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[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

@kryptto I drive it in D 90% of the time, I only use S if i'm hopping around in traffic to keep the rpms up. BUT, this morning it did it 3 times and without thinking i put it in S and it kept the RPMs above the trouble spot. it ONLY is happening at 1600 rpm, it starts as a misfire-like issue and if im not paying attention and lay into the throttle at all it starts spazing out, the first time it happened this morning was the worst it ever was but i was in the middle of trying to pass someone so from 1600 rpm to WOT it down shifted and the tach was bouncing. i let out and it went away like nothing happened, it did it 2 more times but i was ready for it and let out as soon as it started shuttering. from that video Im leaning toward torque converter and I can try that shutter stop stuff. its not consistent enough to me to be in the axles (but i will be checking anyway as soon as i get her on a lift)

@Joshw0000 I know these things dont have a dipstick (or do they?) I always figured "sealed" transmissions had to be drained and filled by the specified volume, no checking allowed. I know where the fill cap is so I can definitely get the shutter stop in there but not sure how to check it. any recommendations on brands for the shutter stop? also, I will do the dorman cap for sure until i can find a lincoln or explorer tube to replace, standard hose clamp be enough to hold it down? I remember a post about it somewhere but some were having less luck with the cap (blowing off) so i didnt bother with it.

going to check if there is a way to record tps data on forscan and see if i can see anything irregular, between the dead pedal, misfire on startup, and the shuttering at a specific RPM its worth looking at it until I can get some shutter stop in it. Thanks for the help

 

[kryptto]

Im leaning toward torque converter

all good - was a thought is all. Torq converter it might be, when my transmission was failing, well it did it twice before Ford replaced the whole thing, it acted weird when shifting as well. I just dont want to jump to the the worst case conclusion.

 

[kryptto]

dipstick (or do they?)

It does, take the cold air out of the way, its there. I had issues getting mine unscrewed. These transmissions like a little extra fluid to perform nicely, go read SM105K post. However if you have room, throw that Shudder Fix

 

[kryptto]

worst pisture ever but you can make out the stock airbox

 

[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

@kryptto That video was a wealth of info, I was just as surprised as that guy to see how bad that axle failed so it's something I will be checking regardless, that and he ran down the list of things that can cause a shutter so I have a starting point if it is transmission/driveline related. on the topic of checking fluid, I have to pull the airbox out of the way to access the dipstick? or is the dipstick part of the fill cap? and unless somethings changed you have to check it hot and running (not that im afraid of running the car without an air filter for 5 minutes and sticking my hand down into the abyss while hot) just making sure THIS car is the same procedure for checking fluid lol

 

[kryptto]

yeah to drain refill its 5qts, however its good to add 2 more ounces is the thought process here. so you should have room for 2 oz of shudder stop

 

[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

View attachment 89614

worst pisture ever but you can make out the stock airbox

That answers part of my previously asked question lol. so the fill cap is the stick

 

[kryptto]

dipstick part of the fill cap

both in one - you CAN get to it without taking the airbox out, however many of us have aftermarket.... then you can get f'd

 

[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

@kryptto Thank you sir, Ill be checking that tomorrow for sure and ordering some shutter stop. Brands? im partial to lucas but will take experience over preference in this case

 

[kryptto]

Brands? im partial to lucas but will take experience over preference in this case

whoever sells whatever - as long as it helps rule out the torque converter. you ultimately wouldnt leave it in the system longer than rulling out the transmission, and replace your fluids again after.

PS - yes after the car is warm you check it running.

 

[Joshw0000]

@kryptto I drive it in D 90% of the time, I only use S if i'm hopping around in traffic to keep the rpms up. BUT, this morning it did it 3 times and without thinking i put it in S and it kept the RPMs above the trouble spot. it ONLY is happening at 1600 rpm, it starts as a misfire-like issue and if im not paying attention and lay into the throttle at all it starts spazing out, the first time it happened this morning was the worst it ever was but i was in the middle of trying to pass someone so from 1600 rpm to WOT it down shifted and the tach was bouncing. i let out and it went away like nothing happened, it did it 2 more times but i was ready for it and let out as soon as it started shuttering. from that video Im leaning toward torque converter and I can try that shutter stop stuff. its not consistent enough to me to be in the axles (but i will be checking anyway as soon as i get her on a lift)

@Joshw0000 I know these things dont have a dipstick (or do they?) I always figured "sealed" transmissions had to be drained and filled by the specified volume, no checking allowed. I know where the fill cap is so I can definitely get the shutter stop in there but not sure how to check it. any recommendations on brands for the shutter stop? also, I will do the dorman cap for sure until i can find a lincoln or explorer tube to replace, standard hose clamp be enough to hold it down? I remember a post about it somewhere but some were having less luck with the cap (blowing off) so i didnt bother with it.

going to check if there is a way to record tps data on forscan and see if i can see anything irregular, between the dead pedal, misfire on startup, and the shuttering at a specific RPM its worth looking at it until I can get some shutter stop in it. Thanks for the help

As kryptto mentioned, you have to remove the airbox to get to the dipstick/fill. Make sure the engine is running or at least warm when you check it or it won't be accurate.

This is what I used. It fixed the issue almost instantly and it slowly came back. Put in 2 tubes the next time and the same (fixed and came back). I had my torque converter replaced and haven't had that issue since.



From what I understand, typically torque converter issues are noticed under load (i.e. taking off). When mine was going out, it cruised fine, but when I needed power it would studder.

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[Bronco2fan]

Autozone sells the Shudder stop. And you leave it in. If it helps the problem, change the tranny fluid and add it back. I've been using it for years and TC hasn't failed yet. My shudder is between 20 to 30 MPH. No problems after I go over that. Cruises fine and takes off like a rocket, minus the turbo lag lol.

 

[Joshw0000]

I forgot about stock air boxes. I think you can reach past the factory air box to get to the tranny stick. Mine is aftermarket.

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[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

She's due for her trans/ptu/diff fluid in 10k, If i put this shutter stop in am I good to wait that long or should i just do the trans early?

 

[Joshw0000]

She's due for her trans/ptu/diff fluid in 10k, If i put this shutter stop in am I good to wait that long or should i just do the trans early?

I say add the Shudder Fix and decide afterwards. A lot can happen in 10K miles. If it happens again, add more Shudder Fix. If it keeps coming back, you probably need a T/C which would result in getting the tranny fluid changed anyway.

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[Bronco2fan]

You can check the fluid, if it looks like it needs changed or smells wanky, change it. If not, add the Shudder stop and drive her around, up to temp and check level again.