Car won't start when hot.

[jesshasasho]

My SHO will not start when the engine is warmed up anywhere near normal operating temperature.
The engine will turn over normally, but the engine won't fire, and start the car. Every once in a while I can hear it randomly fire once or twice but not nearly enough to start the car. After I let it cool @ half way sometimes it will start and it will smell very strongly of fuel, kind of like the plugs may have been flooded perhaps.
It wasn't a huge problem until @ 2 days ago it started randomly dying during driving; even at highway speed.

Anyone have any experience with this or have any ideas as to what may be causing this?
Any help is greatly appreciated. :wave:

 

[ffemtcurrence]

could be the crankshaft position sensor, when hot water from the water pump drips down onto it, are there any codes, or its the iac...plugs good?, wires good? fuel filter new or newish

 

[jccorb]

I had the same problem while I had mine in Germany. X2 on the crank sensor but I also had hard plug well gaskets, after replacing both no problems

 

[1992sho1988]

i thought that i heard once that when the fuel pump goes out that it will do that and once it cools down its fine but im not sure if that applies..

 

[Eric VerValin]

If its dying like that even while crusing around.. it probally set some sort of code. You're best bet is to see what they say.

 

[jesshasasho]

Thanks for the replies so far everybody.
I should have a little time later on tonight to check the codes and maybe replace some of the cheaper routine stuff like plugs and fuel filter. Is the fuel filter in an easy spot or is it under the car like most Fords? I will post some codes later on this evening or maybe tomorrow.

 

[SHO GoDz 89]

Thanks for the replies so far everybody.
I should have a little time later on tonight to check the codes and maybe replace some of the cheaper routine stuff like plugs and fuel filter. Is the fuel filter in an easy spot or is it under the car like most Fords? I will post some codes later on this evening or maybe tomorrow.

Yes it is. It is almost quite litterally hanging off the car, but it is very easy to find. It should be on the passenger side under neath the passenger rear door.

 

[itwonder]

Make sure your DIS ground is good; mounting screws tight, crossover tube bolts tight, engine ground strap good. Test the CPS when you have no start condition. With CPS connector tab up, top two pins are the PIP signal. Each should have an alternating voltage when engine is cranked. Test with LED test light or DMM, which will read 3 to 7 volts.

 

[shocar]

Make sure to change the fuel filter. I had this happen recently. The engine would go into a vapor lock when you slowed down from running it on the highway. It would just die. It would try to hit when you started it but would not run until it cooled off. The problem was the filter was so clogged it would not allow enough fuel pressure in the rail to keep the fuel from vaporizing. I change the filter and the problem was gone. If when this happens and you let off the pressure in the rail and it almost all vapor and not liquid gas then it is the fuel pressure , thus the filter is clogged. It only a $10 part so change it and see if it takes care of it.

 

[hawkeye18]

Your situation is similar, but not the same, as a lot of other people have been reporting.

Fact is, SHOs do NOT like to start up when the engine is still hot. My 94 does it, my wife's 95 does it, the 94 I used to own did it (before it got permanently doused by katrina). If you warm the engine up, turn it off, wait for 15-45 minutes, then try to start it again, it will sputter and cough and choke and die unless you keep the RPMs up around 2000... and if you hold the throttle steady, the RPMs will increase steadily to about 2700-3000 RPM and hold. If you let go of the throttle at that point, the car is fine.

The problem, as I see it, is heat soak. The residual heat from the engine soaks the TB, intake, etc, and the air going into the engine, basically through a hair dryer, is a **** of a lot hotter than the ACT tells the engine it is. Colder air = denser air = more fuel! So the computer is dumping basically a 6-7:1 mixture in there because it thinks the air's relatively cool, and it's choking the engine up. This is why it reeks of fuel and smokes out the exhaust while this is happening.

Once you get some cool(er) air through the intake, and cool it down, which takes aobut 15-20 seconds, the air charge is right for the temperature, and the engine resumes normal operation.

I think this is part of what's happening, but it sounds like you have a compounding problem that's making it worse. It does sound like something in the fuel system is FUBARd. I agree with the others, check the fuel filter first - it's easy. Just make sure you have a screwdriver and nimble fingers for those #!$*)@#$%&($#$% clip thingies.

Edit: Now that I think about it, it may very well be in the spark system as well. It's well known that heat + age = weak electrical components. The coil pack is known to be weak with high heat, and the DIS can suffer from it as well. Get a spark tester and test the spark when you observe the symptoms next. You may need to replace one of the two.

 

[93rev2sev]

jesshasasho,

You probably need a complete front 60k if it has not been done recently...

Crank sensor
Cam Sensor
Cam seals (3)...use the "timken 1213n" seals...not the felpro.
Front main seal
Timing belt/tensioner
Water pump

That's about $225-$250 in parts. Expect to pay at least double that if you take the car in for the work.

 

[quikSHOilver]

Your situation is similar, but not the same, as a lot of other people have been reporting.

Fact is, SHOs do NOT like to start up when the engine is still hot. My 94 does it, my wife's 95 does it, the 94 I used to own did it (before it got permanently doused by katrina). If you warm the engine up, turn it off, wait for 15-45 minutes, then try to start it again, it will sputter and cough and choke and die unless you keep the RPMs up around 2000... and if you hold the throttle steady, the RPMs will increase steadily to about 2700-3000 RPM and hold. If you let go of the throttle at that point, the car is fine.

The problem, as I see it, is heat soak. The residual heat from the engine soaks the TB, intake, etc, and the air going into the engine, basically through a hair dryer, is a **** of a lot hotter than the ACT tells the engine it is. Colder air = denser air = more fuel! So the computer is dumping basically a 6-7:1 mixture in there because it thinks the air's relatively cool, and it's choking the engine up. This is why it reeks of fuel and smokes out the exhaust while this is happening.

Once you get some cool(er) air through the intake, and cool it down, which takes aobut 15-20 seconds, the air charge is right for the temperature, and the engine resumes normal operation.

I think this is part of what's happening, but it sounds like you have a compounding problem that's making it worse. It does sound like something in the fuel system is FUBARd. I agree with the others, check the fuel filter first - it's easy. Just make sure you have a screwdriver and nimble fingers for those #!$*)@#$%&($#$% clip thingies.

Edit: Now that I think about it, it may very well be in the spark system as well. It's well known that heat + age = weak electrical components. The coil pack is known to be weak with high heat, and the DIS can suffer from it as well. Get a spark tester and test the spark when you observe the symptoms next. You may need to replace one of the two.

I absolutely agree with Hawkeye18, more noticable issue appearing on ATX's than Mtx's...what gives because of DPFE EGR'S?

 

[hawkeye18]

well, I - er - forcibly removed my EGR system about a week ago, and it's happened to me since then. I think it's just faulty programming in the ECU. The correct way to do it would be to have a time/PW table that takes out pulsewidth from 20-60 minutes at start-up based on time since shut-off, coolant temp at shut-off, etc.

But hey, it ain't a perfect world.

 

[jesshasasho]

Thank you everybody for the replies.
My intention was to replace my severely leaking radiator that was causing the car to overheat ... then pull codes .. the replace the fuel filter .. then replace the spark plugs.
It didn't work out.

I replaced the radiator and started it and no more gushing out of a cracked end tank. However the water is disappearing ... and then I noticed a large amount of water pouring out of the tail pipe and every exhaust leak along the way at a constant pace. Please tell me what you think this is. I hope it's not what I think it is.

I appreciate all of the helpful ideas throughout this post; this may be a far more serious problem than I had anticipated.

 

[93rev2sev]

If coolant is disappearing and you have water coming out of the tailpipe...that sounds bad.

Too know for sure whats happening, you will need a coolant system pressure tester. Use that bad boy with a full coolant system, pump it up to about 10lbs and wait for a puddle. If the coolant goes down but there is no puddle, wait a few hours and change your oil. It will be then that you should pray to the SHO gods that there is no coolant in the oil. If there is coolant in the oil, you will need a new engine...or some serious work on the one you have.
Water naturally comes out of the tailpipes when you start a cold car, you have to determine if it's coolant or condensation. If it's coolant, it will come out as a big white vapor cloud. If it's condensation, expect it to drip like a coffee maker. I would think that if it's coolant...enough to drip...that the car would have trouble running at all and certainly would not like to be revved up.

 

[jesshasasho]

No, this is no condensation. It is a billowing white (and blue) cloud out of the exhaust, and the oil is milky as ****. I took it about a mile away last night to Wal-Mart just to test drive, and even with thermostat removed and new radiator, the car got pretty hot (Just around the N in normal on the gauge). After it warmed up, no more billowing smoke and it idled the way it is supposed to, but it took a **** of a long time. The radiator was bad for a while, but still functioning all through the winter. About a month ago the radiator just gave up and said "screw you" and started gushing water out of it. It overheated pretty bad that day, and that is when this not-starting problem started, along with a pretty nasty sounding engine thunk/tick while running. I'm pretty sure the engine is shot...cracked head or bad head gasket. Either way, it's not worth the time, effort, and money to fix on that car since it is in such bad shape already. I'm pretty upset, I just got the new black liner piece for behind the headlights and a new hood, which would have totally repaired all of my front-end deer damage except for a front-end alignment and some minor suspension repair. Haven't even put the new body parts on yet :cry:

I really appreciate all the helpful suggestions and all the great people who have tried to help me out here. I think I'll be leaving the "I own a SHO" club now...

Any last suggestions on how I can make this car run just a little longer? Even ghetto suggestions are welcome at this point LMAO, I think I'll either be parting it out or junking it in about a week, but I NEED it to run for at least that long until I can find a new car to buy in a hurry... seriously, throw anything you got at me, I've got nothing to lose on that car lol

 

[hawkeye18]

yeah, if coolant is getting into the cylinders, the engine won't run for ****. You def. broke a head gasket. Don't run that engine again...

Edit: didn't see your last post. You can always try an aggressive treatment of Auto-RX, but there is no ghetto way to make a bad head gasket not bad, even for a few miles. That engine is totally toast. Sorry dood...