Cam Seal and Shifter Shaft Seal Replacement

[Marccus]

I have to install a new cam seal and a new shift shaft seal and boot on my '89 SHO (stock cable shifter).

Greatly appreciative of any advice anyone may have to make things go easier.

This is probably very simple to most or all (!) of you, but I'm just a beginner in working on cars.

Also, would it worthwhile to change out the cam sensor at the same time or is this such a minor job that it can be done any time?

What are the indications that the cam sensor needs replacement.

Car currently runs fine.

'89 MTX
261,000 mi
essentially stock but I guess I should say something (!) ...

Inside door panels coated with Noise-Killer viscoelastic damping compound.

John Deere coolant eye.

ARP Stainless Steel 8 x 1.25 studs w/ 12pt. nuts and washers.

All wires running near hot points or near engine and sensors covered with flame retardant fiberglass insulation.

Wheelskin steering wheel cover.

Coming Up:

Wurth 4 pt. Harness
Hella Fogs
NTZ bypass filter
Meziere Electric Water Pump
Setrab Oil cooler
Semco Superflex Upper Radiator and Heater Hoses
Ron Davis aluminum radiator
SPA oil press, oil temp gauges
3M Nextel ignition wire insulation

Well ... if I win Lotto, I can do half of this.

TIA

 

[naval-avi8or]

Where are you at in CA. To replace a cam seal is like doing a 60K so if you close to needing to do it than start planning now. How did you diagnose it was a cam seal. As for the shifter I have no clue I'm an ATX'er.

 

[projectSHO89]

The cam sensor has to be removed in order to get to the seal behind it. Once you have it off, you can decide for yourself whether you want to mess with it again or not. If the sensor is bad, you will usually have significant problems either starting your engine, or keeping it running.

There are actually 3 front cam seals. The other 2 are behind the timing belt sprockets which have to be removed in order to replace the seals. The 60K maintenance is an ideal time to replace these as you're already 'in the heighborhood'.

naval-avi8or:

If the rear cam seal is leaking, there will be oil dripping from the bottom of the cam sensor itself. When I removed my sensor, there was at least a tablespoon of oil inside the bottom of the sensor and the mounting housing.

Steve

 

[Marccus]

naval-avi8or:
Where are you at in CA. To replace a cam seal is like doing a 60K so if you close to needing to do it than start planning now. How did you diagnose it was a cam seal. As for the shifter I have no clue I'm an ATX'er.

Thanks for the reply. I originally thought the power steering pump was leaking. The first replacement PS pump was defective and leaked because of the seal. The second PS pump leaked from some sort of fitting.

BTW, I had the PS pump put in by a mechanic; I don't (but wish) have the tools, knowledge or the access space to do the job myself. The SHO is my only means of transportation and I live alone in CA, so I can't afford to goof up and be without a car! Maybe someday ....

Back to story ... I thought the PS pump was leaking again, but the mechanic said PS was fine and leaking was from cam seal.

I thought I'd try to replace the cam seal myself, but I don't know what the extent of the work is. I just follow the shop manuals and any other SHO manual.

SHO runs fine. I have a complete set of wires, plugs, and a full upper engine gasket set. So I guess I could do 60K, I have to check the 60K list to see what else has to be done.

 

[Marccus]

naval-avi8or:
Where are you at in CA. To replace a cam seal is like doing a 60K so if you close to needing to do it than start planning now. How did you diagnose it was a cam seal. As for the shifter I have no clue I'm an ATX'er.

I live in Irvine area, about 15 miles from the SHO Shop. They've done a lot of the heavy suspension work, that I couldn't do myself. I know people have mixed feelings, (and I don't want to open a debate) but really these guys have been great to me.

They did a great job on the shocks, etc., They were very responsive when the PS pump they put in was defective and it had to be replaced.

Their shop has at least 6 SHO's being worked on - three on the ground, three in the air! Tight space, but they manage. They always have time for answering questions and will always acommodate me take a look at my car whenever I ask.

 

[naval-avi8or]

I just replaced my cam seals. I still find it hard to believe that you will ever be able to see the affects of these seals leaking until you remove all the crap that covers them. I would say it is much more lickley your rear valve/cam cover seal is what is leaking.

Where in CA are you located at.

 

[CharlieSHO95]

Inside door panels coated with Noise-Killer viscoelastic damping compound.

Could you explain what this material is and where you get it? Did it add much weight to the car? How well does it work?

I'm going to have my door panels off to **** everything, and I would like to quiet the car down if possible.

Thanks

 

[Marccus]

Originally posted by naval-avi8or:
<strong>I just replaced my cam seals. I still find it hard to believe that you will ever be able to see the affects of these seals leaking until you remove all the crap that covers them. I would say it is much more lickley your rear valve/cam cover seal is what is leaking.

Where in CA are you located at.</strong>[/Q

Sorry for long delay in replying. I'm also thinking that the valve cover seals need replacement. I have the gaskets to do that, and I'll find out when I start taking things apart.

The Shop manual indicates one cam seal. That doesn't make sense (there are two cams), but when I obtained the part at the dealer, they just gave me one seal. A poster stated that there are actually three - two for the cam shafts I guess and one other.

There is no good diagram or description on how to replace this seal. Do you have any recommendations or can you outline the procedure and tools to get to the cam seal?

I live in Newport Beach, CA. Are you down at Mirimar in San Diego? I've gone to quite a few air shows to photograph. Always wanted to fly, but when I was ready to apply to colleges in high school and looked at Air Force Academy, etc., I was told I couldn't fly because of bad eyesight.

I didn't want to become a commercial pilot - that's boring. I'd rather fly upside down and with my "hair on fire". Now that's flying.

Tried the space program as a mission specialist on the Shuttle, but just as I was going through the acceptance process, Challenger exploded and the astronaut candidate program was put on hold.

Maybe I'm just jinxed or bad luck to be around!

Thanks for any response and recommendations on the seal replacement.

 

[Marccus]

CharlieSHO95:

Inside door panels coated with Noise-Killer viscoelastic damping compound.

Could you explain what this material is and where you get it? Did it add much weight to the car? How well does it work?

I'm going to have my door panels off to **** everything, and I would like to quiet the car down if possible.

Thanks

Sorry for long delay in replying. I obtained Noise Killer from distributor in Arizona. I don't have address/phone readily available but will obtain it and post it for you.

The weight addition is minimal and much less than those pads like dynamat etc. Also, bitumen pads and others like dynamat will give off an odor which will smell really bad when it gets hot outside. The adhesive eventually fails on these products.

The only manufacturer who makes a product with an adhesive on the back side which is impossible to remove is 3M. Anything 3M makes is awesome. I use a lot of their epoxies. No one makes adhesives better than 3M.

The 3M Perfect-It car polishing system, which is used by just about every professional detailer, is awesome. I use it by hand (it's a LOT of work to do it that way), but the results are amazing.

Noise killer is made overseas in Denmark, I believe. It is used on busses etc, to quiet the noise of panels. It is the best product I've found for damping noise from panels, etc.

I do a lot of audio work, and being an audiophile nut, I've used many different types of polymer materials - either constrained layer or panel stuff - to reduce parasitic vibrations on chassis panels, tonearms, etc. A company EAR makes great products for this, but they are too thick and expensive for large areas.

3M makes a great product for damping vibration on panels that is used in the commercial airline industry - Boeing jets, etc.

It's great, but too expensive for us lay people to cover car door panels with. I've used it in small quantities on audio chasses.

Other sources of sound damping material are the airline industry. Spruce Aircraft and others. They all sell a product called "super soundproofing material" in 1/8", 1/4" thickness.

There is a website dedicated to home aircraft builders strictly dedicated to soundproofing products. Airplane kit makers who make their own wings, etc. from epoxies, carbon fiber, etc. are fanatic about sound proofing and there are tons of commercial products made for this industry.

I'm sure they are all good and work well, but don't have the time to sort through all the technical stuff and determine what is best. Noise Killer is specifically made for the automotive, truck, bus market and it has proven itself.

I'm doing the floor panels next, then the trunk, then the fender wells.

It's not cheap, but it works and won't loosen up like adhesive pads.

You must put several layers on to build a final thick layer (about 1/8") and it is best to spray it on. I didn't have a sprayer so I used a brush which takes a long time because you must apply multiple coats, but you don't waste as much as you do when spraying. Maybe big shops who charge others can afford to have waste, but I can't!

After the stuff is applied, I seal it with plastic based undercoating from Griot's Garage. This product is made in Germany and is great. Nosie Killer is essentially water proof (you have to submerge the stuff in water for days to attempt to peel it off), but figured I'd make it look better with a black top coat. Nosie Killer is a mid gray color.

Hope that helps.

 

[projectSHO89]

Marccus,

There are 3 front cam seals. The front-most camshaft does not require a front seal as the shaft doesn't go through the body of the head casting.

You can only tell if the two middle seals are leaking after you remove the front camshaft sprockets and the inside upper timing cover.

On the advice of Sergio on the SHO Times mailing list, I loosened the front and rear motor mounts from the sub-frame (one big nut each), then raised the entire front of the engine to give better access to that rear cam seal.

I had already removed the Y-pipe and the right side CV half-shaft for other reasons, so there was little extra to remove, besides the fuel line connectors, the PS reservoir and hoses, and some electrical stuff.

Actually, having that front end of the motor able to be moved made the water pump replacement and the rest of the front-end 60K go easier.

Steve

 

[Marccus]

projectSHO89:
Marccus,

There are 3 front cam seals. The front-most camshaft does not require a front seal as the shaft doesn't go through the body of the head casting.

You can only tell if the two middle seals are leaking after you remove the front camshaft sprockets and the inside upper timing cover.

On the advice of Sergio on the SHO Times mailing list, I loosened the front and rear motor mounts from the sub-frame (one big nut each), then raised the entire front of the engine to give better access to that rear cam seal.

I had already removed the Y-pipe and the right side CV half-shaft for other reasons, so there was little extra to remove, besides the fuel line connectors, the PS reservoir and hoses, and some electrical stuff.

Actually, having that front end of the motor able to be moved made the water pump replacement and the rest of the front-end 60K go easier.
Steve

Yikes! Seems like I have my work cut out for me. I'm not an experienced mechanic type, but am learning. So it may take me a few weekends (!), but I'll go as far as I feel comfortable before I button everything back up and start again when I can get some advice on how to proceed past the point I stopped.

Sounds weird and cumbersome but I guess it's the only way to learn when you are on your own and have only 1 car! I can't afford to be left without a car.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[naval-avi8or]

Soory it took so long to respond. i'm down in Snd Diego but I'll be making the long journey across to Jacksonville Fl this friday. Once I get settled in If some one hasn't given you any help I'll be glad to list what was required to change the seals.