Best refrigerant to use on 2010

[shaker281]

My vehicle is 12 years old and seems to be blowing cold at only about 80-85% of the original capacity. I have an A/C manifold and would like to add some refrigerant. What is the best route to go? Best brand? R134A + oil + stop leak? Or straight R134A?

I've also read that the new self-sealing cans and can taps may not work with traditional A/C manifold refill (yellow) hoses. Insights? On edit: It looks like I may need this - https://www.amazon.com/Self-Sealing-Adapter-Refrigerant-Conditioner-Manifold/dp/B07T1NNRSQ

I topped off my 2006 Explorer after about 10 years (the compressor was short cycling) and it was still working fine when I sold it last April, but I would like to not ***** anything up. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

Just take it to a legit shop. The AC system is very particular about the amount in it. It's critical to not overfill as well as underfill. The ONLY way to know the amount in it is to have it properly evacuated and then refilled.

I'm all about the DIYer, but this is one aspect a proper shop with the proper equipment will ha e the best results.

 

[stripSHO]

Don't know about yall in illinois, but over here in MI the humidity has been insane recently which has a massive impact on the sensible heat capacity of an AC system. I'd say if you subjectively feel it's not working "quite" as well lately the best thing to do is not touch it until you know for sure there's a real problem. I've always used plain 134a out of 30 lb cylinders. There's a lot of hocus-pocus in the bottles at the parts stores.

 

[shaker281]

All good points. Yep, really high humidity in Illinois right now. But, I noticed this before that. Still cold, just not as cold as my other Fords. I am leaning towards straight R134a, since it has been 12 years and I don't think losing some during that time is surprising, maybe even normal. Thought a bit of stop leak could be good on an older vehicle, but wasn't sure if it could be ultimately harmful.

I was planning on using maybe half a 12 oz can and making sure that both low and high pressures are looking good. Then if all better, leave it at that. Haven't ruled out having a shop top it off either. Most of what I have read indicates that only use oil on a new or evacuated system. And only if new components don't come pre-filled.

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

All good points. Yep, really high humidity in Illinois right now. But, I noticed this before that. Still cold, just not as cold as my other Fords. I am leaning towards straight R134a, since it has been 12 years and I don't think losing some during that time is surprising, maybe even normal. Thought a bit of stop leak could be good on an older vehicle, but wasn't sure if it could be ultimately harmful.

I was planning on using maybe half a 12 oz can and making sure that both low and high pressures are looking good. Then if all better, leave it at that. Haven't ruled out having a shop top it off either. Most of what I have read indicates that only use oil on a new or evacuated system. And only if new components don't come pre-filled.

But how many ounces are in the system total? You won't know. High and low readings won't tell you that. You need to be pretty exact on how much is in the system. That amount is usually on a label in the engine bay. Do you know EXACTLY how much is in there and how much you should add? You need proper equipment for this part. Those self service cans are junk and you'll never know how efficient your system is unless you have it evacuated and refilled...its not even $100 to do that...depending on where you go and who does it.

 

[shaker281]

Thanks for your help. I appreciate the thorough explanation.

 

[Ta2dResqr]

Sounds like you already have gauges. A vacuum pump is only $150 at Harbor Freight (spend the extra $60 and get the 2 stage). To do it the right way, and not vent it to the atmosphere, you need a recovery tank ~$50 used or ~$80 new. Now you can DIY A/C all you want. When your tank gets full, contact shops and see if they charge to empty your tank. Some places will take it free because they sell it to a reclaimer that will purify it and then resell it.

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

Sounds like you already have gauges. A vacuum pump is only $150 at Harbor Freight (spend the extra $60 and get the 2 stage). To do it the right way, and not vent it to the atmosphere, you need a recovery tank ~$50 used or ~$80 new. Now you can DIY A/C all you want. When your tank gets full, contact shops and see if they charge to empty your tank. Some places will take it free because they sell it to a reclaimer that will purify it and then resell it.

And a scale...you'll need a good scale...

 

[stripSHO]

And don't forget the recovery tank is useless without a $400 recovery machine. And don't forget that if it has lost any charge, then it has a leak. And if it has a leak then performing a proper evacuation before recharging is impossible until you find and repair it.

Of all AC systems in the universe, automotive systems are probably the hardest to mess up. They have receivers for excess refrigerant storage. They have accumulators to prevent liquid floodback to the compressor. They've got multiple pressure safeties. They're engineered to operate across an extremely wide range of conditions. While I'll agree that weighing in the whole charge from scratch is certainly the easiest way to get it right, it's not the only way. These things aren't rocket surgery so let's not portray adding a little juice as if it's like diffusing a bomb.

 

[shaker281]

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here. Although, I do agree with all the above. I even can probably borrow everything needed.

Still, I have never owned a vehicle that didn't lose some freon after 12 years. That is a pretty small leak. My 06 Explorer was barely putting out slightly cold air, plus short cycling and I definitely overfilled it in retrospect, because I was trying to get the exact low pressure and it wasn't happening. By the time I figured that out I had dumped in 2 cans, one with oil and stop leak. It blew cold for 6 more years until I sold it. No problems.

I am talking about adding a few ounces to a system that is working pretty good, but not as good as 12 years ago. Clearly, it has lost a few ounces. And whatever leak is present is very, very slight. Probably normal loss through o-rings and seals. Going through all the above seems like serious overkill. I could add 1/4 can (3 oz) and see how it goes. And add another 1/4 can in a day or two, if necessary. The system holds about 24 ounces total and is obviously down some.

My biggest concern is that the once the LP Schraeder valve is disturbed, it starts leaking. I would check that with a soap solution for a day or two afterwards. Yes, blindly pumping in a couple cans is a bad idea. And if it were non-functional or requiring a refill annually, I'd have the whole system checked, repaired and refilled.

But, maybe we are overthinking this a bit?

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here. Although, I do agree with all the above. I even can probably borrow everything needed.

Still, I have never owned a vehicle that didn't lose some freon after 12 years. That is a pretty small leak. My 06 Explorer was barely putting out slightly cold air, plus short cycling and I definitely overfilled it in retrospect, because I was trying to get the exact low pressure and it wasn't happening. By the time I figured that out I had dumped in 2 cans, one with oil and stop leak. It blew cold for 6 more years until I sold it. No problems.

I am talking about adding a few ounces to a system that is working pretty good, but not as good as 12 years ago. Clearly, it has lost a few ounces. And whatever leak is present is very, very slight. Probably normal loss through o-rings and seals. Going through all the above seems like serious overkill. I could add 1/4 can (3 oz) and see how it goes. And add another 1/4 can in a day or two, if necessary. The system holds about 24 ounces total and is obviously down some.

My biggest concern is that the once the LP Schraeder valve is disturbed, it starts leaking. I would check that with a soap solution for a day or two afterwards. Yes, blindly pumping in a couple cans is a bad idea. And if it were non-functional or requiring a refill annually, I'd have the whole system checked, repaired and refilled.

But, maybe we are overthinking this a bit?

I just went through this on my old ******, a 2004 Nissan Titan...crappy AC temps these days...tried everything above, even had it evacuated and filled professionally, with no change.

On a whim, I decided to replace the condenser, which was OEM from 2004. It didn't look bad at all and was told it wouldn't need it.

I still changed it to a brand new unit and this AC is so freakin cold...it'll run down to 43deg while at idle...

So...maybe something to think about....

 

[shaker281]

Thanks. I do appreciate all the advice. I can easily see why an inefficient condenser (heat exchanger) might limit a systems cooling ability. Most probably assume if it isn't leaking, it's fine.

I really need to get a good digital thermometer, otherwise it is rather subjective. I think I'll do that first.

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

Thanks. I do appreciate all the advice. I can easily see why an inefficient condenser (heat exchanger) might limit a systems cooling ability. Most probably assume if it isn't leaking, it's fine.

I really need to get a good digital thermometer, otherwise it is rather subjective. I think I'll do that first.

Mine wasn't leaking and I thought/was told the same thing...but lo and behold....

 

[shaker281]

Realized that I had a good digital thermometer already. My Thermopro meat/grill thermometer. Running the car in the shade at high idle with Max A/C and recirculate I measured as low as 43 with ambient temp around 80.

This has been a productive discussion, but I shall leave well enough alone until next Spring (then check again) as it seems to be working reasonably well. Probably the heat/humidity was a big factor, like stripSHO pointed out.