BBB Gains?

[jimtash]

Here's another close up pic of the manifold. Slightly different from the one in Paul's pic. It has the cable operated IMRC and uses the same fuel rail as the production version. Rumor has it this version made 88 HP per a liter which would put it at 300 HP. Which would have made the car a true upgrade from the first generation SHOs.

http://www.v8sho.com/SHO/The Lost V-8 SHO A Review of Period Spy Photos 2005.12.11.htm

 

[dohcsho]

the short runner is long and curved in the surge tank

 

[dohcsho]

look this http://www.v8sho.com/SHO/V8 Prototype Intake Patent.htm

 

[jimtash]

So the design is there yet does having the patent make it impossible to reproduce?

 

[dohcsho]

money lol ..cheapy to make crossram !

 

[jimtash]

Get a group buy together.

 

[Sammy~D]

from what i am seeing the lower in take does not fit and it would need the injectors on the outside and the runners to fit on the inside to make it work

 

[kevinspann]

I truly doubt there is another 65hp locked away in that manifold.

 

[SuperHO]

I dunno....how much power do you think the V6 would lose with an intake similar to the V8's?

Honestly, I'm guessin more along the lines of 20hp over the stock intake with properly tuned runners....which would be the hardest part of the design in my eyes.

 

[Sammy~D]

i have been staring at those pictures all day and i belive the dual tb set up would work great and just make a Y intake tube to single maf and large cone filter

 

[Dubeckyj]

I dunno....how much power do you think the V6 would lose with an intake similar to the V8's?

Honestly, I'm guessin more along the lines of 20hp over the stock intake with properly tuned runners....which would be the hardest part of the design in my eyes.

I was thinking about this last night. If you had two runners, you would have a torque peak lower in the RPM range to build hp quicker, then move the other torque peak higher to increase top hp. Probably by about 15-20 peak hp, but imagine how much more area you'd get under the curve.

 

[SHOZ123]

Here's the patent for the original V8 intake manifold design.


http://www.4shared.com/office/Di-qDMxo/V8_protyotype_Intake_system_pa.html

 

[jimtash]

I was thinking about this last night. If you had two runners, you would have a torque peak lower in the RPM range to build hp quicker, then move the other torque peak higher to increase top hp. Probably by about 15-20 peak hp, but imagine how much more area you'd get under the curve.

Would 20 extra HP affect the reliability of the car so that Ford didn't use it? That question has never been answered by anyone as far as I know. Why didn't they use it? It's obvious they made a huge compromise with the V-8 performance wise especially when stacked against the V-6. And 300 HP would've made it a beast back in 1996 but they also had the Lincoln LS coming out too, which would be seen as a competitor for the same market share.

At a minimum, these engines should have had around 250-275 HP from the factory to be considered an upgrade over the V-6 SHOs. And when looking at the engine itself, the performance is there. The head is flow excellent, the cam profiles are pretty aggressive, and it has a 10:1 compression ratio. Yet the thing was hampered by an intake design that doesn't allow it to take advantage of it. Doesn't make sense.

 

[SHOZ123]

The transmission can't take the stock HP.

 

[Dubeckyj]

"Nobody wants to drive a manual performance sedan. Let's make them all automatic!"
"Our automatic transmissions can't handle the power Yamaha delivered. Let's de-tune it!"
"Our camshafts are failing... let's ignore it!"
"SHO sales are dropping. It can't be anything we've done. There must not be a market for them anymore!"

/sarcasm

But does anybody remember the old BBB dyno sheet? Did Kirk run a stock SHO against a BBB with supporting mods and claim total gain at 30?

 

[jimtash]

The transmission can't take the stock HP.

Sure it can if it's maintained. And as noted in one of the links, it was put behind a 4.6L. 73K on my stock running gear and transmission is still going strong. Some have 130K miles on them from what I recall reading and still going.

I think this was more a marketing issue rather than a reliability one especially with the LS coming out. Even if the increased performance did induce extra wear on the transmission, they would've still made it past the 5year/60K mile warranty period in more cases than not.

Many people are ignorant about maintaining their transmissions. Not saying V-8 owners specifically, but car owners in general.

 

[jimtash]

"Nobody wants to drive a manual performance sedan. Let's make them all automatic!"
"Our automatic transmissions can't handle the power Yamaha delivered. Let's de-tune it!"
"Our camshafts are failing... let's ignore it!"
"SHO sales are dropping. It can't be anything we've done. There must not be a market for them anymore!"

/sarcasm

But does anybody remember the old BBB dyno sheet? Did Kirk run a stock SHO against a BBB with supporting mods and claim total gain at 30?

So we'll just come out with a 300 HP rear wheel drive sedan backed up by a manual transmission, stick a Lincoln badge on it and charge more. And don't forget the Marauder with its Cobra based running gear. Saw a gunmetal grey one just the other day. That's a badass ride.

 

[Dubeckyj]

So we'll just come out with a 300 HP rear wheel drive sedan backed up by a manual transmission, stick a Lincoln badge on it and charge more.

Lincoln LS's wikipedia page: "The V8 was not offered as a manual because the Getrag could not handle the torque produced."

Also, it was ~250hp, in a car that weighed ~3700lbs, and was "borrowed" from jaguar. Not to say they weren't great cars, but Ford wasn't exactly out-doing itself with the LS.

 

[jimtash]

But it was in the same market as the SHO. Remember that the MSRP was $30K brand new. Lot of money for a car that barely outperformed the DOHC V-6 SEs. And speaking of the DOHC V-6's, their intakes follow the same design principles as the one in my Probe GT, the Helmholtz resonance. And I upgraded it with an intake off of a 1999 626 KLG4 engine that gave it a boost of about 10 HP with better low end response while still giving it good high end capability.

KL03 is the stock intake.

http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/212489/fullsize/Im001076.jpg

KLG4.

http://www.sukispeed.com/photos/myKLG4intake.jpg

See the differences?

 

[SHOZ123]

Sure it can if it's maintained. And as noted in one of the links, it was put behind a 4.6L. 73K on my stock running gear and transmission is still going strong. Some have 130K miles on them from what I recall reading and still going.

I think this was more a marketing issue rather than a reliability one especially with the LS coming out. Even if the increased performance did induce extra wear on the transmission, they would've still made it past the 5year/60K mile warranty period in more cases than not.

Many people are ignorant about maintaining their transmissions. Not saying V-8 owners specifically, but car owners in general.

Well I managed to average about one a year so there was seldom a chance to accumulate the miles needed for service. But it was pretty severe service. The OEM trans is a POS and there is no avoiding that.

The whole SHO platform was a platform with the minimum of corporate support from the beginning. It's a credit to the SHO community that they brought it back. Too bad they went overboard on it chassis wise IMHO.