an audio confusion

[shoteen95]

I was wondering if you had any input/comments on my crazy system ideas...please keep in mind, i'm an audio newb, and all that i've "learned" so far tonite has been between 12am and 2am...or from ripping out the stock sytem from one car and moving it to another.

I want to upgrade the stock system and was thinking about a nice higher quality polk audio or infinity subwoofer. I hear the stock box performs reasonably well with an 8 inch woofer, even the 85 watt amp can power some smaller aftermarket woofers, altho not to it's full potential. Anything i could do using the stock amp and wiring is really appealing..ease of use maybe..dont know how easy it is to adjust the bass when you have a system and you're going down the freeway.

I was also considering a 8 or 10 inch q-logic truck box, the sealed ones are relatively small, and the idea of mounting it under the rear deck has crossed my mind. I would just have to make sure it was sealed up up to the cabin well, and that however i mounted it wouldnt comprimise the seal of the box.

Settling on a more expensive 8 or 10 inch sub I would most definately be in the market for a better amp. From what little i know, i can splice into the stock speaker wires (before the 4 channel amp, and assuming my new amp had speaker level inputs) and run wires to an amps high level inputs...then all that would be required was a juicy power cable to the battery with an inline fuse. Although, if i remember correctly, my headunit has a preamp out just for a subwoofer amp. i know in its menu it has a subwoofer volume adjustment. Originally i didnt want to tear up my carpet and run RCA's, thats why the idea of just splicing into the speaker wires in the trunk was appealing, but i suppose i could run an RCA cable. Mounting the amp in place of the stock jbl amp would look pretty slick.

Mostly i'm just trying to stay away from the giant speaker box filling the trunk and having a giant amp sitting next to it. I don't need so much bass that my spoiler rattles off my car, either, but yea...more then stock would be much welcome.

Thanks

P.S. I Still have time before christmas, anyone know of some relatively cheap components for this build? I was looking at a sealed 8in q-logic truck box that i think i could mount under the rear deck somehow, it was about 50 dollars. As for a sub, I only looked at a Polk/Momo 8 inch..not sure how much they go for. Amp wise...i have no clue..it'd be nice if it were under 150 dollars.

Sorry i said a mouthful..thanks again

i need sleep

 

[93medusa]

sounddomain.com has some amazing deals that will get you just what you are looking for!

First, for the sub.

Soundstream EXACT EXW8 64.95 (the 10 inch version is only 74.95)
http://www.cardomain.com/item/SSTEXW8

This is a very nice sub!

For the amp

Refurbished JBL BP-600.1Z $159.95
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLBP6001Z

This amp will push that speaker at it's RMS rating, and has plenty of power in case you ever decide to expand.

Wiring: Rockford Fosgate Power SPL RP1734-C $44.95
http://www.cardomain.com/sku/ROCRP1734C

You could go with 8 guage, But I think your best bet would be to run 4 in case you ever decide to upgrade. It never hurts to go oversized on your power wiring, and it's only a little bit of money extra. You could probably find your box there too. I think a better Idea would be to utilize the stock box if you can. If it's not big enough (i believe it is about .35 cubic feet) then have a local shop build you a box. It shouldn't cost more than a q-logic and it shoudl rival the quality. and it will be built to the exact specs you ask for, most likely out of higher quality materials.

This is a pretty tight little system, and the cost is only $269.85, before shipping. But that is pretty damn good! a little over 300 for a solid system with good components. That's a deal! That comes in right around if not a little under where you would have been using an 8inch momo, since they go for 80-90 bucks.

I'd stay away from using the stock speaker wires as input to the amp. Especially if you already have an aftermarket head unit with sub outs on it. You'll be much happier with the sound and control you have using them. As far as running wires goes, that's really easy. The only thing you have to do is take out the door threshold trim on both sides, it's about 10 screws total, maybe 12. Pull that stuff up. Throw the power, remote turn on and signal wires (run power and signal down opposite sides) into the stock cable protectors (can't think of the right term for them right now) Then just stuff them up under the seat and into the trunk. Hook it all up and you've got a nice little system there!

 

[shoteen95]

thanks a lot for the insight, i will probably use the the preamp output from my headunit..the more i think about it the more i realize i'm a perfectionist nut when it comes to these kinda things, so i want to do it right. If i can put an 8 inch into the stock box and it will perform great..then i'll go with that..a lot of the 8 inch woofers i found prefer a .35 cubic foot enclosure..i'm not positive on the stock box.

As for amps, I've seen a lot of cheaper 2 channel amps around...these sony and clarion models come to mind
http://www.cardomain.com/item/SONXM2100GTX
http://www.cardomain.com/item/CLAAPA250
it says it delivers 250 watts (200 for clarion) continuous power when bridged..isnt that the same as a mono amp basically?

I know i dont really need to ask...but those cheap amps on ebay...they're crap right?

Also dont i want a sub without a paper cone?..my speakers dont even have paper cones..how would a paper cone woofer hold up since it would be firing right into the cabin under the rear window...doesnt sunlight damage these things?

 

[Sho_Freak]

i swear the stock box is bigger than .35 cubic feet..... the rockford fosgate p1 10"er (yes i put a 10" sub in the stock box) i have performs VERY well, and it says it performs best in a .65 cu ft incloure. i did the math one time and it came out to like .48ish cubic feet for the stock box.... but im dumb, so i could be wrong. but it might be around .35 cu ft......

dont get paper cones, they arent as good as injected polyproelyne or whatever and some aluminum and other synthetic type cones. just dont waste ur time with paper cones...(not even the stock 6.5" sub is paper)

my whole system cost me about $400. ($150 hu, $50 set of speakers x2, $100 2 channel amp, and $50 sub.) and it sound very nice with the amps bypassed and all stock stuff upgraded. i have a feeling ull like ur setup if u get what u want.....

ive always liked clarion amps, i dotn know why, but i do, and thats what id go with.

 

[93medusa]

Just because a cone isn't made out of some fancy material does not mean it is inferior. That Soundstream woofer is of the utmost quality. That is not some flimsy stock speaker we're talking about. It's a very high quality subwoofer designed for pure sound quality. I wouldn't go around making blanket statements like that. It just makes you look uneducated. And I do believe that the paper is treated with a coating so that it can stand the abuse of the automotive environment.

As far as the volume of the stock box, that's just what I've read, but don't forget that you have to subtract some volume for the holes used to mount the box to the rear deck.

That Clarion amp won't even compare to the JBL. it puts out 200 watts PEAK bridged, that means it probably only runs about 100 watts RMS bridged. The JBL amp will run that sub perfectly, and allow you room to expand if you ever decided. For 60 bucks more it's totally worth it. And stay away from Sony amplifiers if you know what is good for you, unless it is from their older ES line, chances are it's a piece of crap (that one is absolute garbage).

I'm hoping some of the other more knowledgable car audio SHO owners will chime in here (SteedaSVT? who I believe has run this line of sub) and help steer you in the right direction. You're better off doing it right first, and learning from our mistakes than making them yourself the first time.

 

[Sho_Freak]

i shouldnt have said anything about paper cones....... ive heard one set of paper ones (some 10" mtx's w/black cone, dont know what they were) and didnt like them much, but it may have been some other factor in his system?
ive always used non-paper coned subs, so i shouldnt have said anything.

i didnt see the part about the jbl amp in 93medusa's earlier post........ive always liked jbl amps, along with jl, concept, and alpine. and that amp seems to be very nice, i would go with that one if i didnt have a satisfactory amp in my system right now.

on the stock box i redid the math with the mounting pts taken off and it was about .38xxxxxxxcu ft, so .35 is very close.

i do agree on the not getting sony amps part......they are pure crap.

i should have just not said anything, even tho i did get some new knowledge outta it.......

 

[SteedaSVT]

Hey Shoteen,
I live in Taylor if you need help with anything as long as its not audiobahn im game! lol

as far as what to get.. I can get you some amazing stuff for cheap. I just hooked up my buddy with a cd player pioneer, 10 with box and a 400rms amp for 400 installed.

Paper cones RULE!! lol the cone material doesn't matter soo much as the process its made in. The EXACT's are what the name implys EXact! they are probably my #3 sub imho. my Fav also happens to have a paperbag cone CV Stroker! #2 also Kove KMG X..im partial to paper cuase to me they have a more mellow sound. I have a Diamond Audio 10 M5 alumium cone and its kinda harsh.

If you need a SUb i have a Cerwin Vega 10 for sale if you need one but it needs a ported box. If you need help don't hessitate to ask...

Kanakrysvt on aim
kanakrysvt@hotmail on msn..

That goes for anyone and everyone. Any detroiters i am will to help out as best i can Info is Free, Installation cost money!

 

[93medusa]

Steeda SVT! Thanks for chiming in! Shoteen, looks like you've got some good info going here, and possibly some help from Steeda. Let us know if you need anything else, and don't forget to run what you are getting by us first!

 

[SteedaSVT]

Not a problem! I got a new Sub in the SHO..

IDmax10 dual 2... Good stuff i like it alot! Still not a stroker though

 

[93medusa]

mmmmm image dynamics ::gugle:: you still running your soundstream class A amps?

 

[SteedaSVT]

no i sold the Ref's

I got a MMAtts or 2 coming and some ***'s coming shhh its a secret

 

[shoteen95]

thanks for all the info and idea's people.

So far i've come up with this JBL amp...
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLCS2001

free shipping

it's not the BP-600.1Z 93medusa suggested, but it's a tad cheaper, not refurbished (or renewed..either way that kinda turns me off), and still puts out 236watts at 4ohms..which i think should be enough for a sub. and it's damn sexy...and has preamp outputs..which...? lol (still learning here people)

Still pessimistic about the soundstream sub..not cause of the paper cone, but because it says its not recommended for sealed enclosures (only free air usage...if that really means anything)..so i don't know of any enclosure size requirements. So far it's kinda between that and a 90 dollar polk momo (only rated at 200watts continous) and 2 rockford fosgate subs
punch stage 1: 60dollars and 150watts continuosuly 300peak
punch stage 2: 90dollars and 200watts continuously 400peak

they all recommend a .35 cu ft enclosure as well

free shipping on the rockfords and polks too

as for power/connections..
http://www.cardomain.com/sku/ROCRP1734C

all looks peachy..

lol 93medusa..i know you're gonna talk me into that soundstream...and probably the other amp too...

-------------------
JBL cs200.1 amp
Polkmomo 8 inch
wiring kit
$248.85

$237.35 - with soundstream

alright you crazy audiophiles...sound pleasing?

P.S. thanks again! you guys have been great help..steedasvt..you say you're in taylor..wanna hook me up with a cheap install before i get some confidence and try doing this myself

Stay tuned for next new thread, "getting that damn sub into the stock box"

 

[shoteen95]

oh yea, checked earlier tonite...HU does have a 2.5 volt subwoofer out and -6dB to +6dB adjustment..

wow up till 2 again..i think i found my new hobby.

I should be saving for a 60K

 

[93medusa]

Well, I found information on the Exact sub.

http://www.soundstream.com/sub/owne...ALS AMPLIFIERS/Exact/EXC Subwoofer Manual.pdf

Says it is good in a .5 sealed enclosure, also says it is 200watts RMS, not the 300RMS that sounddomain says. That doesn't make it a bad choice though! If you did decide to use it, you could simply add some poly fill (basically pillowstuffing) to the box to trick it into thinking it's in a larger enclosure.

I'm not going to shaft that JBL amp. It has good power ratings (real wattage ratings to CEA 2006 standards...that's good!) and is from a reputable brand. I've seen those old ones tested to the same standards (I believe) rate a little higher, but if refurbed makes you uneasy, then I understand where you are coming from. That amp will have more than ample juice to push that sub. It'll actually have a good amount of headroom built right in. You'll just have to take care setting the gain on the amp so that you don't risk damaging the sub.

The Polk sub is a good choice too, I can't condone the use of it. It fits your application perfectly. I would stay away from the Rockfords (I was never that impressed, and they are less efficient than the Polk). Another great thing about the Polk is that you can run the voice coils in paralell to get the 2 Ohm load that your amp would need to push maximum juice

With that amp, you COULD run an 8 guage power line without any problems, but if you have any thoughts that you might someday add second amp, or upgrade your sub amp, I'd stick with the 4 guage kit. That way you won't have to run wiring twice. You can never have too big a power wire.

You know what else is kick ***? You get 15% off of the polk sub and the JBL amp, that is kick ***!

So, over all, I'd say you've made some good choices. And all that really matters is that you are happy when you finally make your purchases! GOOD LUCK!

 

[SteedaSVT]

SHO Teen what street you live on?

Umm i have a flat rate that i charge depending on what it is.

 

[shoteen95]

i live right by Ford rd and Inkster..

but i figure i'll try this myself..cant be too hard

going home this weekend now that i have my christmas list done :****:

 

[shoteen95]

update..

the jbl amp, polk sub, and RF wiring kit are in the mail and will be eagerly awaiting me christmas morning

unfortunately..my stereo is being **** at the moment, the front passenger side speaker keeps cutting out, at first i thought it was the stock 11+ year old (it's from a 93) amp, but then i went over a nice michigan pothole and the speaker cut back in..only to fizzle somewhat, and cut back out over the next expansion joint.

before i had my infinity's installed, the front drivers side speaker was out, i thought it was blown cause it was just a stock premium sound speaker and i had 50X4 watt HU and maybe i had overpowered it. but upon installation, IIRC the guy told me that a harness or connector had come lose, and the speaker was actually still good.

Has anyone ever had the connectors work their way out of the speakers? but..no i dont think this would make sense..cause if they wired the front speakers like the rears, then they just spliced into the speaker wire before the connectors to hook them up..

I really dont like these ford stereo's anymore, my dad's beater 93 has a hack job setup (stock headunit, stock premium sound amp, front jbl speakers, rear premium sound speakers), and the last time i drove it, ONE speaker worked..and if i cranked the volume some of the others would start to pop and then fizzle back to life..but i remember one of the door speakers doing the same thing before it was hacked..maybe it was the HU?

oh well fudge i'm clueless...i picked a **** of a week to quit smoking... :laugh_ti:

 

[audioman]

Sounds like you have a short some where in one of the 2 speaker wires. Make sure to check the rear harness in the trunk if you have a new HU that harness has a lot to do with the speakers. I would also check the wires right begind the head unit to make sure none of thoes are touching, came loose, ect. Also Where they spliced in to the orginal speaker wire for your new speakes make sure that the wires are insulated enought so that they never touch that could make the fizziling sound or just cut it out all together. If you have a voltage tester this would be a good time to use it to make sure all your wires have power going to where it is supposed to.

 

[shoteen95]

i bypassed the 4 channel amp with the bypass cable i had layin around..the speaker was still out.

Hit the passenger door panel with some force...came back on..

guess i'll be crackin that baby off to check and see whats up.. :jpshakeh: