am I getting screwed here?

[Deuermeyer]

heres the deal...

My car has 97,000 miles, and was running pretty rough. so, I took my car into the shop taday and was quoted as follows...

Spark plug and wires,
fuel filter,
replace 388 gasket, valve covers
replace rear exhaust,
new timing belt,
new water pump.
total - $1600

Seems pretty steep, am i getting a fair shake?

 

[SHOtimer]

Well, you could save alot of $ doing it yourself. Has it ever had any of those parts changed? If it hasn't then it will prolly fix your problem. And for price, well that is a lot of labor, your not getting taken. It takes some time and part$ to take care of all that, so no your not getting screwed, at least in my opinion. This is very IMPORTANT: make sure they use motorcraft plugs and wires, anything else you will have to replace very soon, and they won't perform nearly as well.
Doug

 

[SHONUT91]

IMHO,you are getting screwed if this is all he is going to do and that does not include a full 60k service on the car,what you have listed is not even $400 in parts so $1200 in labor=your getting screwed.Just my opinion,why does he want to replace the rear exhaust or is he just replacing the gasket?
I just roughly figured up the parts you have listed and rounded it off excluding exhaust and just assuming he just wants to replace the gaskets.TOTAL $310.now you do the math eek!

<small>[ October 30, 2002, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: SHONUT91 ]</small>

 

[shojuan]

Well I did a quick and dirty addition of the parts you mentioned at what I believe are the cheapest prices possible for the proper parts. The total for parts comes to just under $500 (subtract $150 for a rebuilt water pump instead of a brand new ford pump)

There are still some parts you didn't mention that ought to be replaced at the same time: accessory belts, front main seal, perhaps the throttle body and IAB gaskets if these are to be removed for a proper intake cleaning. If a valve adjustment is going to be performed there's another $100 of replacement shims (it will take a bigger collection than this to have a supply of shims up front that can take care of what you need. There will be leftovers because they come in packs of 2. But replace all 24 shims at $4 a shim that's almost $100. If you do it yourself you'll have leftover shims). You'd want to make sure your shop has the option of replacing each shim with a new one if desired. That will require them to have more than $100 worth of shims up front.

OK, back to where we were: $500 for the parts you mentioned. An extra $135 for the additional parts I mentioned (shims, belts, front main seal, TB and IAB gaskets)

So roughly $650 parts, $1000 labor. That's roughly 15 hours of labor at $65. I would have to had done a 60K several times on my car before I could do as complete a job as I did in 15 hours. If your shop doesn't have experience doing a quality 60K on a SHO before then they'd have to really bust their butts to give the full benefit of TLC that's possible during a 60K in just 15 hours. Maybe I'm a little off on that statement. I'm sure Scott, Shawn, Fred, Mark, etc. would have a better idea of what a shop can and can't, could, will and won't do in 15 hours for a 60K.

If you want to save some labor money you have two options as I see it: equip yourself with the tools, time, and reference materials to tackle the job yourself. Or let us know whereabouts you live so we can figure if there's a SHO enthusiast nearby (or within where you are willing to drive) who would do the service for a lot less than $1000 labor while giving the maximum TLC that's possible during the service. Max TLC = Max satisfaction from the 60K. That means all runners and ports cleaned, valves checked and rechecked, gasket surfaces nicely cleaned, tedious stuff like that where your average shop could and would skimp.

Hope this helps

Rick

<small>[ October 30, 2002, 02:32 AM: Message edited by: shojuan ]</small>

 

[shojuan]

SHONUT91:
Just my opinion,why does he want to replace the rear exhaust or is he just replacing the gasket?</strong>

I assumed he was just talking about the y-pipe to catback donut gasket.

<strong>
I just roughly figured up the parts you have listed and rounded it off excluding exhaust and just assuming he just wants to replace the gaskets.TOTAL $310.now you do the math eek!

Heh, I guess we were both running through the numbers at the same time (my little book took a bit longer to compose).

My numbers are a bit higher (I'm figuring tax or shipping here) but I think it would be fair for a shop to charge that price for parts. In fact it would be likely that most shops would charge quite a bit more than the $500 I came up with for just the parts that Deuermeyer mentioned. We're more or less on the same page here though.

Rick

<small>[ October 30, 2002, 02:27 AM: Message edited by: shojuan ]</small>

 

[SHONUT91]

My numbers are a bit higher (I'm figuring tax or shipping here) but I think it would be fair for a shop to charge that price for parts. In fact it would be likely that most shops would charge quite a bit more than the $500 I came up with for just the parts that Deuermeyer mentioned. We're more or less on the same page here though.

Yes we are,I just do alot of competive price shopping and I have a little mom n pop auto here in my area that will meet or beat any price whether it be from another store or off of the internet.As long as I provide proof from the competion.
Picked up two re-built halfshafts complete for $110.about a month ago. thumbs_u I sure am glad their are still people on this planet that are not out screw people over for personal gain.

 

[luigisho]

There is plenty of reference material available to do this yourself if you are so inclined. This stuff has been done by people with very little to no previous experience. You could save many hundreds to a thousand dollars by doing it yourself. There is an excellent do-it-yourself instructional video available at Sho Nut Performance that can guide you all the way through most of this (valve cover gaskets, h2o pump, t-belt etc..).

 

[92greensho]

I think everyone is missing the point. His car runs rough, that is the concern. When brought to the shop they gave him a shopping list of parts, and told him that it would fix the problem. They are probably right, But a new engine would also fix the problem.

The point I am trying to make is that he probably paid about $100 to have the shop figure out what's wrong with his car. And instead of spending time diagnosing the car they made a list of possible causes, and priced out every part.

If I were you, Deuermeyer, I would head back to the shop, and ask them what exactly will fix the rough running concern, and what they are up-selling as maintenance. Then have them do it.

Just my opinion. Travis

 

[luigisho]

Well then, what are the symptoms and all that? Oil in the plug wells? Computer codes?

I thought the real question was are they ripping me off for the price quoted. Well, for parts and labor not really.
Does it all need to be done? Can't say without more info.
You are due for a 60k. Find what you need to fix and do the maint. required if possible.
How's that?

 

[Deuermeyer]

let us know whereabouts you live so we can figure if there's a SHO enthusiast nearby (or within where you are willing to drive) who would do the service for a lot less than $1000 labor while giving the maximum TLC that's possible during the service.

I live near St. Paul (MN). Then nearest place (on shotimes.com 'hall of fame' is "Courtney Truck Service" in Eden Prairie)

Anyways, my parents are paying for everything that needs maintenancing on my car, and they insist on sending it to their own mechanic whom they have dealt w/ for 10 years. (he really is a decent guy, but thats nieter here, nor there.) Im somewhat mechanicaly inclined, so I plan on doing the full 60k (parentally funded ) after I get the car back (should be thursday). What is there left to do, to make it a complete 60k?

to everyone who is helping : have a beer
(id crack one too, but im olny 18)

 

[rangerj]

In defense of the local independent gas station or garage owner;

1. You are figuring the amount of the $1600 estimate represented by parts by adding up what the parts would cost YOU, if you shopped around for the best price you could find.

The garage owner does not have time to go shopping, or to have the garage tied up waiting for parts to be shipped in via a mail order operation.

He or she will call a local parts supplier and order what he/she needs for your job. The garage owners cost is typically 50% of what you are charged for the part. That is, the garage owner typically gets a discount off of the list price of the parts of 50%.

An independent garage makes money on the sale of the parts, and the labor they perform. This is how they cover their overhead expenses, and hopefully make a profit.

You can go out and buy the parts at a discount, and you can do the labor yourself, and save a significant amount of money. But, it is not a fair comparison to compare what a job would cost at retail (when done by a professional machanic), to what the same work would cost if done by you.

If you are getting the quality of parts that you are charged for, and the quality of labor that you are paying for, then you are not being ripped off.

The next time you need a front end alignment, go out and buy a $50,000 alignment setup so you can save $50!

As best I can remember, capitalism and making a profit is still the American way!

How many of us have told our employer to take back 25% of our pay, because we decided to give him a discount on our labor for the pay period?
Thats what I thought!! rangerj

 

[Yamaha V6]

If you're doing the waterpump & timing belt, do the CPS & front crank seal & accessory belts as well - whether he does it or you do it. It's pretty much the same labor.

Which brings me to: If you're going to do the rest of the 60k, you do everything on the list, less perhaps the exhaust. (Rob Schneider) YOU CAN DO IT!

 

[luigisho]

I'm with Fred here. If you are planning the 60k that's everything listed minus the exhaust. I would not pay someone to do the waterpump and t-belt and then crack it back open for the crank sensor and seal. AND I would never pay someone to install plugs and wires ever!

 

[Deuermeyer]

AND I would never pay someone to install plugs and wires ever!

Niether would I. But, you don't know my parents though.

 

[luigisho]

HAha, fair enough. If they're footing the bill could I recommend a quaife as a maintenace item? hehe.

 

[PaulRuffo]

Unless the mechanic took off the timing belt covers they would have no idea if the timing belt needed replacement. And the water pump. Chances are if it was the culprit, the car would now have a bad CPS. Mechnaic doesnt want to replace that so seems fishy to me that the water pump is bad. If it needed a new exhaust gasket, the exhaust would be louder than usual.

Wouldnt it make sense to replace the plugs and wires and see if that fixes the problem rather than say he needs to replace two of the most expensive (labor wise) parts on the engine?

I think it's fishy. Dont get me wrong, I think at 97K they are due to be replaced along with other stuff. I just dont like a mechanic replacing more than "needed." As travis said, he brought the car in because it was running rough. That is the condition that the mechanic should address. Regular maintenance that "should" be done is a whole other discussion.