A new lift for my SHO

[rcryniak]

Hey guys... some of you might remember that we bought a new house a year or so ago, and fixed up the garage nice Well, you may also remember that I was anxious about jack stands and had high falutin' plans for a lift. Sadly, neither the concrete type nor the ceiling height allowed for a lift to be installed... so I've been keeping my eyes peeled now and again.

...yesterday I came across this QuickJack product, and it looks really promising, just right for what I need it for. I spoke with the sales rep and they said they test with 1.5x the rated weight (this one's for 5000 lbs, so our SHOs are 4400 lbs, and if they hold up in practice to 7500 lbs, that's awesome!)

http://www.quickjack.com/shop-quickjack-products-all/bl-5000slx-ac-110-volt.html

So what do you guys (and gals) think?? You like? Would you feel safer getting under the car using this than getting under a car on stands? (I was thinking, I could throw stands under the device in two places just as a backup before going under, even if that destroyed the device, better losing it than my melon.)

There's a 7000 lbs version too, but it's 250 bucks more and back-ordered until May, yuck.

Eric the car guy did a review on it too... would really like to hear everyone's thoughts.

 

[sperold]

It is hard to tell from the advertising informatin; I can see your dilemma. To me, it looks ideal for the body shop application where you want the car up to a height you can work on the sides.

It appears to lift by swinging through an arc, so both sides have to face the same way, which might sound silly to mention, but stranger mishaps have happened. Maybe the length of the hoses makes a mixup impossible.

Usually a factor of safety in structural design is 4X, not 1.5X.

It is most useful for working at the extreme ends of the car, not so great for the middle of the car activities.

I think you would have to customize the lift points so that you are lifting where the car has its hard points.

You are going to be tempted to put this machine up on something so that your first 6" of lift are not wasted, so that would be part of your customization, which will require some thought.

You would have to employ jack stands or something else as a secondary safety device, you have 2 mechanical contraptions and a bunch of hoses, so there are lots of possibilites for grief.

Might be OK, but I would try to get a look at one in operation to avoid buyers regret. Also, strongly consider the upgraded model, as the SHO is not one of the lighter vehicles.

 

[rubydist]

his Fairmont is not a large car, and the device is too short to get the blocks in the right place to hit the hard points on the body of that car, so it is too small for most cars. I would keep looking.

 

[rcryniak]

It's 60 inch on the outside, and the SHO jackpoints are 65ish on center sooo... you're right that it's shorter. Wouldn't that work anyway though since the pinch weld runs all the way down?

The manual also shows running it ACROSS the car underneath. Could then use it to lift it straight up then down onto stands. That's ultimately my big goal atm. Not jacking up the car one side at a time. I cringe thinking of all the lateral load being put on wheels like that, especially if the lugs are lossened even a little. Really would be ideal just to jack it up all at once.

 

[zoomlater]

Have you seen this set up. I've been thinking about this one since I can't fit a full size lift in the garage either. The newer SHO's would be at the max limit and I didn't see any safety factor on their website. The gallery page shows some of the different cars they have used with this lift (how much does a Ford Flex weigh)

http://ezcarlift.com/index.html

 

[sperold]

I finally watched the video, and it does work well, and the video answers a lot of my concerns. It does have that locking mechanism that seems to suggest you may not need jack stands (I would at least put something under the tires though). I would still worry about one side misbehaving when lowering the car.

It is a lot better than jacking a car up, one side at a time.

It has to be simple enough that on your worst day, and using your worst judgement, you can still accomplish the job of jacking up the car. And I think it does pass the test.

They have to have an engineering department, so I would contact them about the failure design limits as 1 1/2 times seems more like an aircraft factor of safety, not a lift device that will receive no maintenance.

See if it is designed and made in the USA.​

 

[2011TAURUSSEL]

I did not know the manufacturer but I have seen that set up on Garage Squad. looks portable and fairly simple to operate.

 

[rcryniak]

Have you seen this set up. I've been thinking about this one...

http://ezcarlift.com/index.html

Yep, I thought about that one too. The problem with that one is the way it operates. First off, it uses a drill. My drill. Which, moving 4400+ lbs seems like it could damage it, so I'm not thrilled on that point. Then, it's over 2 grand. And it's not clear in the middle (good and bad there)... worst though: the feet come together as it raises, so it will damage my garage floor. (Even with wheels it will - I have a rubberized garage floor - which I love!) That's one of the reasons I got so excited about the QuickJack - it doesn't move around on the floor with weight on it at all. (I even have to protect the floor with oak laminated plywood where my current jack goes, so it can roll without damaging the floor!)

I will try to get more specific information on the official factor of safety. She may have been giving me a guess, never know with salespeople.

 

[SilverSH0]

It's 60 inch on the outside, and the SHO jackpoints are 65ish on center sooo... you're right that it's shorter. Wouldn't that work anyway though since the pinch weld runs all the way down?

The manual also shows running it ACROSS the car underneath. Could then use it to lift it straight up then down onto stands. That's ultimately my big goal atm. Not jacking up the car one side at a time. I cringe thinking of all the lateral load being put on wheels like that, especially if the lugs are lossened even a little. Really would be ideal just to jack it up all at once.

The lateral load on your wheels from jacking up one side is insignificant to the lateral load experience from anything resembling an aggressive turn.

I would have to look under my car, but I think the exhaust might hang too low to use them across the bottom side. Not sure on that, but make sure you check before buying for that purpose.

 

[rcryniak]

SilverSHO, that's a good point about the lateral load in a turn. If our cars can do 0.87g max on the skid pad, that's quite a bit of load at just over 3,800 lbs of pressure in total. However, that'd be split to all 4 wheels across the width of the car, not the entire weight... but neither is jacking going to put the full load on the 2 opposing wheels either... so I can't say for sure, other than you make a good point that it's not likely as bad as I'd imagined.

As far as going across, and the exhaust interfering, they sell extenders for SUVs that would work well and put the top beams well out of the way of the exhaust - so I'm still considering... but less so since you made that point.

 

[rcryniak]

I take it back... you don't corner at 0.87g with loose lugs (e.g. tire rotation) I think I still want to get something to lift my car on 4 corners at once. I'd just feel better - just got to find something suitable if this isn't it. Cost is a factor (wife's approval is a factor, lol).

Any ideas other than this lift or already mentioned?? Anyone know of a sturdy lift, even if just like a giant 4 point floor jack to get it onto 4 stands quickly. Any ideas?

 

[rubydist]

Search Amazon for:
Arcan XL2T Black Low Profile Steel Service Jack - 2 Ton Capacity
I think that is the best high-lift floor jack that I have found.

 

[sperold]

The QuickJack system you researched seems pretty good to me.
You are not trying to make a living with it, and it seems capable enough; in fact, it is pretty slick.
You will do a lot more maintenance, if jacking the car up is the easy part of the process.

Good luck.

 

[rcryniak]

So, I took some real, less guesstimate-y, measurements just to see if this lifting system would even work correctly on our cars. The maximum outside lifting surface of the device is 60", and that's even for their largest model that supports 7,000 lbs!

After reading their product manual, I was considering using the lift across the car latitudinally, using the Truck/SUV risers they sell to clear the exhaust system and other parts, if only to use it's "all at once" lifting to get it high enough to then gently set the car down on all 4 jack stands. Again, I just really don't like the idea of having one side of the car tilted, even for a minute or two, while the other side is pinch-weld=>jack stand... especially now with a slightly messed up pinch weld courtesy of my dealership. I also especially don't like the idea of the other side still on the ground having so much weight at such on odd angle when the lugs are loose for tire rotation. I further don't like the idea of jacking higher and higher in steps to get it up high enough for certain tasks, one side at a time. The whole thing just seems sketchy to me. I would just be way more comfortable with something that uniformly lifted the car, and won't damage my waterproof rubber garage floor.

Anyhow, this device seems perfect... however, the problem is that from pinch weld to pinch weld across the car... it's 60" on center. The device just doesn't quite reach that far, with it's edge to edge being 60". So they'll touch the pinch welds but not grip them. So, going across the car just won't work in this case.



I also measured all the relevant openings in the rocker panel that led to the pinch welds, particularly the factory jacking points, shown approximately positioned in yellow above... but also what I've been calling "secondary jacking points" in green above. Granted those "secondary points" aren't even mentioned anywhere so I realize that they're not necessarily put there as jacking points, in spite of also being openings (albeit smaller ones) that also expose pinch welds. At any rate, I've been using those "secondary" points for my floor jack to actually lift the car, and putting the jack stands under the factory points.

According to my measurements, it's 70.5" from the outside of the front factory jack point opening to the outside of the rear factory jack point opening, and 60.5" for the distances between the inside of those same openings. That means this lift doesn't fit the factory jack points either, it's not even really close tbh. Sooo... of course I'm wondering about using these "secondary" (green) points for more than a few seconds of lifting time but as supporting positions. Is it safe to keep the car hoisted by those points for extended periods? What about going from the front factory point (yellow front) to the rear secondary point (green rear), which after all will be supporting far less weight than the front) and maybe throwing the jack stands under the lift and the official rear factory point to "catch it" if there's an issue? Not a big deal? Risking anything in particular or any other comments or input on using these "secondary points"?

I would really love some expert opinions/advice at this point, as I'm very seriously considering shelling out for this.

For everyone's edification, here's the measurements I took, as you can see, going factory front to secondary rear (A->J) actually fits the specifications of the lift (sorry it's an image of text, but I wanted to keep the formatting correct):

 

[rcryniak]

OK, so forgetting about the lift itself, let's just pretend jackstands at the moment... So.... just looking at those factory jack points, and the secondary points as diagrammed above in green, what are all of your opinions on supporting this beast of a car completely using the front factory jack points and the rear "secondary" points? I'm looking to know if that's safe & ok for the car for long term use, long term meaning up there supported for hours on end, on a semi-regular basis, with someone possibly getting under the car. I just want to make sure that using the rear "green" points in lieu of the rear "official" yellow points, but keeping the front factory jacking points, if that would be safe and OK for the car.

Any and all input is welcome, if you're an engineer or a mechanic, then that's especially true.

 

[RAYJAY]

YOU CAN USE THIS WITH THE RIGHT LIFT BLOCKS ( the lift blocks need to be slotted )

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas-Kwik-Bay-7-000-LB-Mid-Rise-Lift

or this

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas-TD6MR-Portable-Scissor-Lift

also need slotted lift blocks

http://www.automotivetools.com/Chal...ort-rise-lift-set-of-4/63100/682/Product.aspx

slotted lift blocks

or just buy lift block and slot yourself

thinking of going with the first one posted because of the center access on car

 

[rubydist]

that Greg Smith stuff looks like a lot better choice, especially the first one.

I am not sure I would be comfortable with anywhere close to 6000 lb on the second one...

 

[BlueSHO]

that Greg Smith stuff looks like a lot better choice, especially the first one.

I am not sure I would be comfortable with anywhere close to 6000 lb on the second one...

I've got a Gregg Smith 4 post lift in my garage and love it.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[SilverSH0]

You're asking for expert opinions but this is a forum, you're not going to get expert opinions. You're going to get opinions from people who are around the car regularly and trust what they do.

On my car I would have no issues picking up the car where you've shown. However, I wouldn't leave it on the jacks (unless they have a mechanical pin that holds them in position) because I don't feel having jack stands to catch it if it falls is the safest thing. If a car falls you don't know if it's going to shift slightly in a direction and then there's a good chance that jack stand isn't going to be where it needs to be. I would put one jack stand on the rear factory jack point and the other jack stand under the front subframe.

Have you measure the left to right distance between the subframe mounting points? I would imagine one of those lifts would fit between the two.

 

[rcryniak]

I realize that I'm asking for expert opinions from a group of regular people, most of whom don't have any kind of engineering degree. However, since I'm a relative newbie to working on cars, I definitely trust the judgement of people that have been doing this for quite some time. Besides, enthusiasts on a particular car are more likely to know about a car's failures or have heard stories about "this guy that lifted there...", you know, any information no matter how unofficial is useful in making a decision.

That first left from Gregg Smith looks somewhat interesting (albeit 1.5x the cost), however, it requires 21 peak amps of 110/120v, and that's pushing the limits of my 20 amp circuit in my garage... in fact, I've never heard of a 25A or 30A circuit at 110v. That said, I also like the lightweight portability of the QuickJack system, I could literally take that to the track (that's what it's designed for actually), so that has great appeal. I think I'm sold on that one, provided I can resolve these other questions.

Anyhow, my jack stands are 6 ton each, they're quite large and do have that big fat safety pin. I've now used them a few times and I feel much safer under the car with them than when I first started this fun; they're very solid with a nice wide base. I'd probably not consider a lift except for the fact that I'm nervous about all the things mentioned at the top of the thread. My stands can go pretty tall, which is cool, I just would like a way to get the car up to that height (20-24" is good) and set it down in one fell swoop, no jacking up one side, raising the height, back and forth, side to side, a couple inches at a time until it's high enough... and clearly, I'm not going to jack up the car to full height one side at a time - that would just be absolutely reckless. I think I'd just really prefer a lift, and this nice, lightweight QuickJack really appeals to me...

...that said, I refuse to buy it if I won't be safe under it, since that defeats the purpose, hence my asking everyone about those secondary points. If they're just as good as the official factory points, then I'd go front factory point to rear secondary point, use the lift and call it a day. Boom. Done.

Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with anything besides my heavy duty stands if I could jack from the front and back in the center of the car, and lower the entire front or back onto the two jack stands... I'd be very comfortable with that. However, I've heard on these later model cars, it's not wise to use the traditional points, like the rear diff, because they're designed to be much lighter can definitely take some damage if you lift with them. So that's just not going to happen - ever.

What I think I'd like is someone to say, "I use those secondary points all the time, even with jack stands, and they're just as strong as the factory jack points." But only if it's true. lol. Honestly, I even called Ford, hoping to talk to an engineer, but customer service insisted that I talk to a "Factory Trained Technician" and put me through to a dealership service department. (sigh)

Anyhow, point well taken on the jack stands "catching" a falling vehicle. You're right, bad idea. The other approach I was thinking was more like putting them inside the QuickJack lift to catch a falling platform that's slowly coming down due to hydraulic failure or whatever. I think that'd work as a safety backup, but presumably only long enough to get out from under the car. Heck, even a 4x4 over jack stands like a sawhorse, so the 4x4 catches the car would make me feel much more secure getting under it.

Anyhow... if someone can confirm or deny the structural safety of those lifting points once and for all, that'd be awesome, if not... then I'll just have to keep calling Ford until they patch me through to one of the engineers. Dare I hope haha.