92 SHO will not start

[Bryan]

Okay so going to work last night I started the car just fine, Coming home it was a little hard to start (I figured the cold was a culprit there), but now as I am home I went out to star her back up and she just wouldn't turn over. alternator is brand new as well as the battery. I got plenty of power, but no start. Could I be looking at the starter going bad? Also is the starter and solenoid all one thing or separate? I looked on rock auto and it lists it as separate is this true? I also tried tapping on the started with a hammer while someone was in the car. I could hear the starter, but it sounds more like grinding or churning than a clean start.

 

[zoomlater]

Possibly. How old is the starter? Starter and solenoid are one piece. One Gen 1's, the solenoid is in the engine compartment. Try going under the car and using a screw driver (with an insulated handle) to see if the solenoid will engage. Key in the accessory position, but not starting the engine. You need to make contact with two of the bolts on the solenoid.

Can you also check what voltage is at the starter to make sure you have enough power. Key in the accessory position again and measure the voltage across two of the bolts.

 

[luigisho]

I think 92 had the integrated solenoid on the starter

Here is a pic with the external http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/frisbeeguy/media/bWVkaWFJZDo5MzE0MDM5Nw==/?ref=

Alternator and starters are spotty quality right out of the box (as well as failing fairly quickly after seeming to operate correctly). I wouldn't count on a replacement as being 100% and crossing it off the list

 

[Bryan]

Possibly. How old is the starter? Starter and solenoid are one piece. One Gen 1's, the solenoid is in the engine compartment. Try going under the car and using a screw driver (with an insulated handle) to see if the solenoid will engage. Key in the accessory position, but not starting the engine. You need to make contact with two of the bolts on the solenoid.

Can you also check what voltage is at the starter to make sure you have enough power. Key in the accessory position again and measure the voltage across two of the bolts.

There's a lot of oil and grease on the starter. I doubt I'll get a good contact with a screwdriver. And if you want my guess? The starter is probably original. Car only has 100k miles on it.

 

[zoomlater]

The location of the starter right below the oil filter has led to failed starters if you do not protect the starter when doing an oil change. Try cleaning the bolts and contacts up, that could be your problem if good contact is not being made.

 

[Bryan]

The location of the starter right below the oil filter has led to failed starters if you do not protect the starter when doing an oil change. Try cleaning the bolts and contacts up, that could be your problem if good contact is not being made.

Well I'll try this weekend when the temperature warms up a bit. As of right now its like 1o degrees outside and I just don't want to lay on the ground. Its freezing cold.

 

[sperold]

One long shot that is easy to eliminate, give it a boost.

High cranking amp batteries have plates that are close together. Often they distort and bend and touch each other. It takes a load test to get the correct result. There will be plenty of battery to run the accessories, but fails when asked to start.

Worth looking into, especially with the quality of current batteries.

 

[Bryan]

Is it easy enough to swap out the starter? I can get a new one. And I mean new not remanufactured from Bosh, NAPA and a few other sources. It's going to be relativity decent this weekend so I can jack up the car and swap it out.

 

[Bryan]

One long shot that is easy to eliminate, give it a boost.

High cranking amp batteries have plates that are close together. Often they distort and bend and touch each other. It takes a load test to get the correct result. There will be plenty of battery to run the accessories, but fails when asked to start.

Worth looking into, especially with the quality of current batteries.

I can get under the car this weekend and get a volt meter on it. I'll make sure to get a reading of how much is going to the starter before doing anything else.

 

[zoomlater]

Is it easy enough to swap out the starter? I can get a new one. And I mean new not remanufactured from Bosh, NAPA and a few other sources. It's going to be relativity decent this weekend so I can jack up the car and swap it out.

It is pretty simple, three bolts if I recall. I would do the few test before buying a new starter and replacing it. There could be issues in other areas, grounds, bad electrical contacts, etc. Getting a voltmeter and checking different locations can help pin point where the issue is.

 

[luigisho]

It's fairly simple. The hardest thing about this job is the cold ground in PA this time of year. get the vehicle some good height off the ground, get something to lay on and swap it out. oh yeah. clean the area of and give it some drip dry time so you don't get oil and goop dripping in your eye or mouth

 

[SHOdded]

Check the wiring too, specifically IIRC the wire from the generator that runs near/atop the radiator. Corrosion/breakage.

 

[itwonder]

Is it easy enough to swap out the starter? I can get a new one. And I mean new not remanufactured from Bosh, NAPA and a few other sources. It's going to be relativity decent this weekend so I can jack up the car and swap it out.

Starter is relatively easy to change. Just remember to disconnect the negative lead of the battery first. I installed a NAPA 4N-9249 new manufacture starter w/ Lifetime warranty in 2008, and it's still working.

 

[Bryan]

Great... my weekend is looking like its going to be a pain in the ass.

 

[rubydist]

nice T-bird under the blanket.

 

[Bryan]

nice T-bird under the blanket.

Thank's but the old girl sleeps now under her white blanket due to a dead battery and trying to jump a big block with a jump pack in the cold just is an effort in futility. She rolled over and laughed then went back to sleep. Now for the SHO I am hoping that at least the temperature gets warmer to melt this white shit. Dammit I miss having a garage.

 

[luigisho]

Yeah, I don't miss working on vehicles in the snow. Grew up in Erie, had enough, and moved further south. Had to change an oil pump in a Jeep Wagoneer during a light snowstorm at night in the front yard in college. No mas

 

[Bryan]

Okay so after a day in the snow (dammit winter why do you mock me!), I got the new starter installed. I made sure to clean off all the contacts and places. I also decided to change the oil because why not right? It's right there so might as well. Car is back up and running again! Though I think I found another issue. While having the car jacked up I noticed antifreeze dripping down onto the cat. I went over and looked and it looks like its very VERY slowly leaking down the front of the motor and dripping onto the cat. I guess my water pump is probably the next thing that will need to be replaced?

 

[zoomlater]

Can you clarify when you say down the front of the motor? Is it down the center of the motor where the crank position sensor is located or off to one side. Best to clean it up and see if you can find the source of the leak. Do you know if the front 60K was done? How old does the water pump look?

On one of my cars, I could see antifreeze dripping from the lower timing belt cover and assumed my pump was leaking. It was leaking from the crossover tube and missing the crank position sensor. The car was due for the service anyway. Look at Rubydist comment in the below thread.

https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/coolant-leak.136957/#post-1484084

 

[luigisho]

At this age coolant could be leaking from lots of places. Best to narrow it down before you tear into something like water pump. Like zoom said above rubydist had a good leak up on top of the block, could be an old hose. There are lots of little places coolant can show up especially when everything is pretty old. Not saying you are wrong but be sure you don't do alot of labor intensive work in the snow for nothing.