802SHO 2010 Build

[802SHO]

Can I have your headlights?

It would be difficult to try to convert 13+ style headlights without the car bc I would be redesigning the top and bottom plates to fit your different shape without knowing exactly how the bumper would align against the bottom plate or hood on the top. The wiring harnesses that come with them are huge and I was able to remove like 60% or more of it with the switch panel. My unfinished business with mine is to add the dimmer switch, which I have but also tie in the front turn signals to blink the halo’s. When I made mine I added a bottom plate only after I test fitted the front bumper and more or less the bottom plate is just to block off air flow and fill the gap when the bumper is on. You could totally do it man, given your expertise in computer building. It would be a fun project. My headlights are irreversible …that cost used for their shells, I’ve trimmed plastic off the back of the housings. The pods, sheet metal, vinyl and stainless hardware probably north of $750 work all my own free labor. It would make sense now, having done so, to use SEL halogen headlights, used ones from a salvage yard, you’d be removing the lenses anyway and then just plus the cost of the other materials, but it would be very risky to try and create that without knowing exactly how it fits because your headlights and your front bumper are different

 

[kryptto]

It would be difficult to try to convert 13+ style headlights without the car bc I would be redesigning the top and bottom plates to fit your different shape without knowing exactly how the bumper would align against the bottom plate or hood on the top. The wiring harnesses that come with them are huge and I was able to remove like 60% or more of it with the switch panel. My unfinished business with mine is to add the dimmer switch, which I have but also tie in the front turn signals to blink the halo’s. When I made mine I added a bottom plate only after I test fitted the front bumper and more or less the bottom plate is just to block off air flow and fill the gap when the bumper is on. You could totally do it man, given your expertise in computer building. It would be a fun project. My headlights are irreversible …that cost used for their shells, I’ve trimmed plastic off the back of the housings. The pods, sheet metal, vinyl and stainless hardware probably north of $750 work all my own free labor. It would make sense now, having done so, to use SEL halogen headlights, used ones from a salvage yard, you’d be removing the lenses anyway and then just plus the cost of the other materials, but it would be very risky to try and create that without knowing exactly how it fits because your headlights and your front bumper are different

A simple no would suffice...

 

[802SHO]

A simple bo would suffice...

Hey man lol, I’m not just dismissing the idea I have thought about it.

 

[802SHO]

Well, of course it rained and things took longer than I thought. Work day was longer, getting the few things left to put back on took longer …was simple to think about but doing takes a little bit of time. Only started it and moved it out of the garage (had pulled it in) and backed it in so forward facing out. Idle is lower. Brad wants me to swap in the stock TB and log a steady state idle for 20 seconds. I was still on my first start up tune, 1st revision. I’d say another idle log is to be expected. Took a couple pics …man I need to get this thing permanently on the road

 

[802SHO]

Well, all signs lead to it being a bad idea to put a check valve on my oil return tank outlet. Good intention, bad result. Glad I added that vent hose to one of the catch tanks. The car idling for less than 10 min filled it up to the point oil was pouring out of the breather filter. Luckily I didn’t drive it anywhere. Shut it off immediately. Dye residue still in the motor so that’s why it’s greenish
Ok so I believe the check valve will crack open work just 1 psi. Well after talking to my engine builder he said the oil return isn’t pressurized. Oil blocked at the tank and filed up the vent hose and that catch tank.

I’m feeling 100% about that but I’m going to do an oil return bucket test. Cheap conventional oil from OReillys and over fill 1 quart. Check post pump and pre pump with and without check valve. Verify 2 things. Pump is good and flowing in correct direction (even if the arrows are pointing the right way) and verify check valve not opening. Solution is remove it.

 

[802SHO]

Actually I removed and inspected the post pump hose and pre pump hose already at the same time I also installed the check valve. I’ll just drain and clean everything. Remove the check valve. Fill back up with cheap oil and watch the tank. Bet it’s dry just like the rear valve cover tank.

 

[802SHO]

Update: vacuumed out catch tank, cleaned up oil residue, drained oil out of oil return tank. Removed check valve. Drained engine oil. Did some simple tests with the check valve…it appears to just be a flow check valve but finicky under weak flow faucet water….it worked and kind of didn’t and did and kind of didn’t. Removed anyway.

Filled up with Shell, Rotella conventional 15w40 (10w40 not available) Diesel motor oil, fortified with zinc, as per Matt Pohnans suggestion to use cheap oil for testing. He approved 15w40.

Turned the car on. I fling lots of oil out of both turbo exhaust dumps…mist everything in my garage in their path. Wow…that’s new. Subsides …and appears tamed.

Idling now about 5 min…everything looks good…no oil in catch tank….oh wait….ok I got some oil coming in now (that glass fluid level super handy) I pop the cap off just to confirm…oil return tank vent dumping oil. It’s filling up quickly, shut it down. It’s just over 1/4 full of the catch tank. So no oil leaks out of any hoses or out of the engine….just oil passed the turbos seals and oil not returning fast enough. Leak is the oil return tank vent basically but upstream the leak is really the oil feed. No oil on ground just oil from exhaust splatter.

Hmm let’s check the scavenger pump. They certainly couldn’t accidentally put the pump cover on wrong …flow arrows molded into it. Not a fitting.

I decide not to run the car again to test the pump. I make a test hose. Car on jack stands and I remove the oil pre pump hose. It’s got oil in it but let’s check this pump. The only motor oil I have left now is 1/2” quart of BR40 10w40. My test hose isn’t long enough or I could have just tested the pump to suck the motor oil out of the catch tank back into the motor. Basically my oil return gets caught in the tank and not sent back to the motor. I found a tall Mason glass and dumped the left over BR40 in there and submerged my test hose. Stefanie turned on the pump and it sucked it out in a few seconds. Ok the pump is good. I’m wondering about the viscosity now….certainly would be easier to flow thinner oil…hmmm, that thought on pause.

So my oil feed is too powerful. And oil return can’t keep up. But also when I turned the pump off a decent amount flowed back out of the hose. Since this scavenger pump can run dry (indefinitely) they say…..I should turn the pump on and clear up my lines for a min before starting. Give the oil return a leading start so it stays ahead and also can run it for 30 seconds after it shuts off. Perhaps venting slows the flow down. Or the tank outlet and passenger side turbo almost loop…but then my driver side turbo misses out in some of the flow and fills up the vent. Lots of combinations of how it might be insufficient.

Well I essentially deleted the oil restrictor fittings and that appears to have been in vein. Shouldn’t need them but boy do I. I just ordered another set of them.

To do list: remove exhausts and clean and decrease as well as clean oil cavity’s in turbo cartridges. Clean up all the oil mist spray and oil on my fenders. Reassemble with oil restrictor fittings. Remove oil pressure regulator and disassemble and see if it even has a spring in it, while I’m at it. I don’t want to have to clean up all this oil again. Lots of ppl don’t use a tank and just Y the turbos directly to the pump. I’m starting to wonder if I should delete the tank. It’s bc of the tank dimensions it’s mounted off to one side. With a Y fitting I can have it dead center and would rather move my scavenger pump to where my tank used to be, so even it sucks level…even though it shouldn’t matter. Delete the vent oil return vent to the catch tank (literally only reason oil gets in it). My test with the pump the hose was directly submerged, no venting. Turbowerx did tell me they have ppl just Y the returns directly to the pump and no issues. Perhaps this is what I do.

Add back restrictors…remove tank and vent, move pump to where the tank was, Y the returns in the center and fire it up.

No vent to catch tank that will stop all fluid. Oil will return to block as only option of flow path. Pump level and certainly that’s only an advantage. Lines directly connected making the pump very efficient. Might have something here.

Overall everything is ok. Just a big bug to workout with the turbo oil feed/return/tank/vent/pump. Adding oil pressure regulator and removing restrictor fittings didn’t help. Adding a vent to the tank didn’t help. Adding a check valve maybe helped but let’s just not even go there if I can run the pump a little longer or before I start let’s just do that.

Water cooling turbos is a success. Catch tank VTA is a success. The VTA and vent helped show me I have a problem.

 

[kryptto]

Water cooling turbos is a success. Catch tank VTA is a success. The VTA and vent helped show me I have a problem.

Forward movement always a good thing. You have a complicated oil pumping system. Seems at this point not to be a shocker you are having difficulties. The LAST thing you want to do is starve the Garretts of oil, however the engineering of the system has been challenging. I could tell you I only wish I could be more insightful.

Damn, I have had on my XDI Evo twice now, once my flub up with the SAE/Metric screws, ok - my bad - I swapped them and didnt think to swap the 2 sets back and see if I was missing something. Got screws figured out, feel stupid for saying this... NOW I cant get the HP Fuel Line to properly match up to my pump, the neck angle, and the gap of a 1/16" is causing me not to be able to thread the HP stainless steel line to the new pump. I get it - its a tight bend - and a stretch, however in light of what you are doing, I feel so small in trying to get my HPFP to fit the HP fuel line.

So when hearing your story - it helps put my problems into focus. Though I would gladly take any help with getting the HP fuel line on the manifold to match the new pump.

Good luck Andrew - you are a dogged fighter.

 

[802SHO]

Forward movement always a good thing. You have a complicated oil pumping system. Seems at this point not to be a shocker you are having difficulties. The LAST thing you want to do is starve the Garretts of oil, however the engineering of the system has been challenging. I could tell you I only wish I could be more insightful.

Damn, I have had on my XDI Evo twice now, once my flub up with the SAE/Metric screws, ok - my bad - I swapped them and didnt think to swap the 2 sets back and see if I was missing something. Got screws figured out, feel stupid for saying this... NOW I cant get the HP Fuel Line to properly match up to my pump, the neck angle, and the gap of a 1/16" is causing me not to be able to thread the HP stainless steel line to the new pump. I get it - its a tight bend - and a stretch, however in light of what you are doing, I feel so small in trying to get my HPFP to fit the HP fuel line.

So when hearing your story - it helps put my problems into focus. Though I would gladly take any help with getting the HP fuel line on the manifold to match the new pump.

Good luck Andrew - you are a dogged fighter.

You have to loosen the 8mm bolt holding the injector line down. It’s under the intake slightly. Just loosen it. Work the line on. Bend it a little more if needed. It can take it don’t worry about bending it. I also fought with mine bc I thought I could do it without loosening that bolt holding the line in place. You’ll get it.

 

[kryptto]

You have to loosen the 8mm bolt holding the injector line down. It’s under the intake slightly. Just loosen it. Work the line on. Bend it a little more if needed. It can take it don’t worry about bending it. I also fought with mine bc I thought I could do it without loosening that bolt holding the line in place. You’ll get it.

Yeah I took the TB off to get to that nut... You know my concern clearly. Waiting to hear a snap. I should be able to hand thread that fuel line bolt a few turns, which I cant at this point. PM to you.

 

[SM105K]

Seems she is fighting you just like my Mercedes is fighting me.....Good Times.

 

[Bronco2fan]

That's the bad thing about being the first to do something, you get to figure it out for everyone else.
Glad you're not letting it get you down. We're all sure you'll get there.

 

[802SHO]

That's the bad thing about being the first to do something, you get to figure it out for everyone else.
Glad you're not letting it get you down. We're all sure you'll get there.

I’m frustrated but I’m not leaking fluids externally, internally through the turbos and returning the oil mostly in the wrong place, the catch tank. All in all I can work with this.

 

[802SHO]

The pump is likely more of the issue…for argument sake…if it were too powerful I’d have no oil in the oil return and oil returning into the vent would never have the chance. I think the pump is “just enough” for 2 turbos but the way I plumbed it and where I mounted the pump made it less efficient, is what I’m thinking. Adding an oil regulator, deleting restrictors and adding a vent enhanced this flaw of inefficient plumbing and return capacity.

I deleted the tank last night and drained all oil. Pains me to see bc I think it’s a great tank. Well, I have a tank for a future use? All fittings and hoses on the way.
*Delete tank/vent hose to catch tank
*remake oil return lines equal length to Y fitting
*Mount pump where tank was
*all -8AN oil pump and oil filter fittings will all get -8AN to -10 AN expansion fittings to bump the flow all back to -10 immediately for better flow. (Pump as -8 AN inlet and outlet fittings only as well as inline filter)
*edit Remove oil filters/screens in turbo oil system

Hmmm maybe remove that inline filter (10w40 probably harder to flow through it). Would I rather a new pump or new turbos? I kind of don’t like oil screens with turbo stuff. Wasn’t any before (my GHgen3 I had no screens) and no issues. Oil pump in motor fine so why would external oil pump not be? My oil interval is likely going to be as little as 1,000 miles and another oil change. I think the screens are for extended oil intervals. And then they also become part of maintenance…remove/inspect/clean. I think they lead to more harm than good.

If I want to take the restrictors back out I can. That an easy swap.

Another tune revision from Brad. Hoping to end the year before it snows with one good short road trip with no more of these issues and some pics of it out of my garage and not on a flatbed tow truck.

Edit: If this doesn’t work then I’m adding another pump and going to use my other oil return on the front of the block, tap it for NPT and pump and return each turbo individually back to the pan.

 

[802SHO]

Talked with TurboSmart, went through my original oil feed and return setup with the tech. He actually uses the same Turbowerx base model scavenger pump for twin turbo setups. He was quick to rule that out and I’m glad to get another opinion, from his experience. He also agreed that plugging the vent on the tank would equalize flow.

So adding the vent must have allowed the pump to favor the shorter and closer passenger side oil return. Maybe that’s why my driver side turbo puked the most oil and maybe why the vent ended up catching the oil.

He also agreed to just Y the return and use no tank and no vent. He asked a great question about the flow capacity of the OEM oil return I was using. He said it flows one baby turbo back to the pan, see if you can find out its flow capacity, maybe the oil isn’t able to return back fast enough, meanwhile the pump is doing its job just fine. He said he recommends …not Turbosmart, he said I recommend from working on my own cars, just tap the oil pan for -10 and plug both OEM oil returns. Then you’ve got your flow to the pan.

I checked with Matt Pohnan and he said yes just tap for 1/2 NPT. He said just tap one of the OEM returns slightly above the pan. So I ordered a 1/2 NPT to -10 AN 90 fitting. I’m going to take my plug out of the front OEM return and plug the rear. Then tap the front port and that short and sweet 90 fitting will clear my exhaust and I’ll Y the returns, straight into the pump, back above the pan right in front of the motor.

He said the oil pressure regulator is definitely working properly and doesn’t think I need to put restrictors back but I think I will…and swap them out for the ones I modified later if I find a need for it.

So that’s the plan.

 

[kryptto]

good luck!

 

[802SHO]

The good thing about these turbo seals are they are mostly metal. Nothing to do other than clean them. No damage. But I can understand why they can’t hold excessive oil pressure.
It’s the small inner seal. I have everything now to remake my oil returns. I also got another opinion from another engine builder/high performance shop owner about the oil screen in the regulator and oil filter in the return line. He asked…doesn’t the oil already have a filter? I said yes the engine oil filter…he said exactly. Filters are also a restriction, if you got too many it can have an impact.

Our Jeep got in the way of working on my car but I was able to put my new found hose making skills to use. Power steering fluid lines corroded and all the fluid leaked out. On the rack there’s 4 lines at the base of the steering column. 2 go to the reservoir, pump, cooler and return. The other 2 go on the rack itself. I figured bc of the obvious leaking lines the pump and rack probably ok. All of the pump/cooler/reservoir lines are available for purchase except the 2 lines on the rack….why? Just to force ppl to buy the whole assembly. Why else would they not be available for purchase? Cheap new is about $300 or $1,000. How about I just remove the leaking one and convert it to -4AN? 1/4 pipe compression to -4AN…done!


This job took a long time. There was an unbelievable amount of brackets holding these lines in place. Some stuff I could only get 1/8 of a turn at a time. Needless to say there didn’t need to be 1,000+lbs of force holding ..maybe 1lb total in lines…..none of the brackets went back on, just 3 zip ties. I didn’t remove anything but the splash guard. Can only use 1 hand…getting them threaded on was challenging. Just glad I was able to fix this with very little money, just my time.

Pretty cool though that everything can just get converted to AN. The ends of the hard lines looked good so I just did compression. But once off I could have also converted the inlet and outlet. Very versatile, you can convert a line in the middle or entirely.

Back to my car now

 

[kryptto]

Mind building me a hp fuel line extension? Glad to see your project is moving along. Sounds like the filter elimination will help with flow.

 

[802SHO]

Mind building me a hp fuel line extension? Glad to see your project is moving along. Sounds like the filter elimination will help with flow.

What’s the OD 3/8? 3/8 pipe compression to -6AN PTFE. 1’ of -6AN PTFE stainless and rubber coated hose. I wonder if the end is already -6AN threads but if you have thread pitch measuring tools…the end would be one -6AN PTFE hose end to…whatever those threads are. I could make it if you want but you’d have to cut the hard line and install the compression fitting end. I use a cheap pipe cutter.
You’d want to remove your TB and cut the hardline here
Or even slightly further down, as far as you could go. I can find out from XDI what the thread pitch is. So 3/8 compression -6AN PTFE to 45 angle -6AN PTFE to whatever that is. Can’t buy less than 1’ of hose I’d assume the hose would be super short bc of the fittings have about 2” or so. Lmfao so yeah….i can make it if you want. Only thing you’d need to do is cut the hardline and install the compression fitting end on it. The rest of the line would be done.

Edit: or just something like this added no lines remade. Maybe need to bend the line back a hair lol!

 

[kryptto]

What’s the OD 3/8? 3/8 pipe compression to -6AN PTFE. 1’ of -6AN PTFE stainless and rubber coated hose. I wonder if the end is already -6AN threads but if you have thread pitch measuring tools…the end would be one -6AN PTFE hose end to…whatever those threads are. I could make it if you want but you’d have to cut the hard line and install the compression fitting end. I use a cheap pipe cutter.View attachment 92337
You’d want to remove your TB and cut the hardline here View attachment 92338
Or even slightly further down, as far as you could go. I can find out from XDI what the thread pitch is. So 3/8 compression -6AN PTFE to 45 angle -6AN PTFE to whatever that is. Can’t buy less than 1’ of hose I’d assume the hose would be super short bc of the fittings have about 2” or so. Lmfao so yeah….i can make it if you want. Only thing you’d need to do is cut the hardline and install the compression fitting end on it. The rest of the line would be done.

Love the idea, let me try one more approach. I tried the wrench - it would grab and then snap lose as I gently started grabbing the thread. Its the angle of the NUT, it is off in alignment. The round connector seats - however the nut is deep in depth, and wont back the bend without being out of alignment.

My next try which I didnt think of last weekend, going to "try" and take the pump itself and start threading, the fuel line. THEN apply the black base, then see if I can screw down the base. More than likely will fail since the hardline wont let me twist the base to get to the screws. SEE your pump... is not exact to mine.

Per Mike at XDI - "Yea there was an older model that was built based on valve cover design but we change it years ago to the top feed design so it’s compatible with all models.

The 2nd video I sent shows the top feed design, that’s why my boss made another video at the time.

No other changes were made except for the inlet design to make it easier."

I swear there is a difference - though small for the newer style pump.