3.2l Swap Log

[vortex2450]

Just to add to the "proper timing belt positioning" excitement....

With the #1 cylinder at TDC as described above, you will also see that the crankshaft timing gear will have a dot on the face, that lines up with a raised line on the oil pump housing. This is a good double check to make sure you're in the right spot.

Also, when you're facing the crankshaft side of the motor, the timing belt goes on with the lettering "backwards", or facing away from you. Use the 3.0l timing mark at the crank.

Now that the timing has been mentioned I am slightly confused..

I use the 3.0l timing mark on the belt, with the 3.0l tensioners, the 3.0l backing plate and covers, the 3.2l oil pump, and the 3.0l crank pulley on the 3.2l block and timing will be dead on?

Does it matter which cam gears I use on the 3.2l?

(I am NOT swapping cams at this time) that would add just one more thing to the long list of work and I want to get the engine in and running before I think about swapping cams..

ALSO: How to I convince the crank pulley itself to come off the shaft? I got the bolt off no problem but the pulled is stunk on there pretty good.

 

[Bob Gervais]

Now that the timing has been mentioned I am slightly confused..

I use the 3.0l timing mark on the belt, with the 3.0l tensioners, the 3.0l backing plate and covers, the 3.0l crank pulley on the 3.2l block and timing will be dead on?

Correct.

Does it matter which cam gears I use on the 3.2l?

No. Gears for the 3.0 and 3.2 are the same.

(I am NOT swapping cams at this time) that would add just one more thing to the long list of work and I want to get the engine in and running before I think about swapping cams..

Swapping cams isn't really that big of a deal power wise. You get a little more lift, but not enough that would make a noticable difference IMHO.

 

[vortex2450]

Thank Bob, any advice o pulling the crank pulley? I don't have any special tool for it, didn't think about it honestly..

 

[Bob Gervais]

You'll need a puller for the crank pulley, and for the timing belt pulley on the crank (if you intend to do the front main seal and crank sensor).

Something like this will work:

http://www.matcotools.com/ProductImages/p522.jpg

Or this, commonly called a steering wheel puller:

http://www.thepartsbin.com/cartools/images/otc-7403.jpg

Both are available very cheap from a lot of places. Autozone, Advance, your local parts store, or good ol' Harbor Freight should have them for less than $20 or so.

The crank pulley threaded holes are 8mm, timing belt pulley threaded holes are 6mm. You will be able to use intake bolts, and timing cover bolts in these pulleys, along with the puller, to get them off.

Neither pulley is a press fit, it's more of a tight sliding fit, so you won't have to gorilla the puller to get them off. Having the puller makes things way easier though. You'll probably find that when you put them back on, the timing belt pulley will slide on fairly easily, and the crank pulley will slide on about halfway. Use the crank bolt to pull it in the rest of the way.

Also, don't forget to install the timing belt washer, lip facing out, before you install the lower timing cover and crank pulley!!!

I stress this because it's easy to forget, and 2 of the last 4 front 60k's I've done on customer cars had the timing belt washer installed with the lip facing the belt, ruining the belt and causing the car to run like scalded dog ****.

 

[rubydist]

Swapping cams isn't really that big of a deal power wise. You get a little more lift, but not enough that would make a noticable difference IMHO.

I disagree. the 3.0 cams in a 3.2 are good for about 15 hp. that should be enough for most anyone to notice. my 92 3.2 w/ 3.0 cams is noticeably stronger than the 3.0 that I am fixing for a guy now.

 

[Bob Gervais]

I disagree. the 3.0 cams in a 3.2 are good for about 15 hp. that should be enough for most anyone to notice. my 92 3.2 w/ 3.0 cams is noticeably stronger than the 3.0 that I am fixing for a guy now.

I highly doubt 15hp. I don't have the specs in front of me regarding cam specs, but 15hp from a cam is a lot to ask unless it's a custom grind.

3.2s normally are stronger than 3.0s. That's why we swap them.

BTW, before I get all **** bent on making custom motor mounts, how is the NVH with your custom setup?

 

[vortex2450]

I don't want this to break out into a complete debate over the 3.0 intake cams in the 3.2..

With that said I realize the 3.0 cams have a higher lift profile which may result in more top-end power (who knows how much) but I will also sacrifice some low end torque which is one of the big reasons why I wanted a 3.2l. In then future I may swap the cams ....

And if it means anything the PO told me this engines runs quote "very strong". Judging by how clean and maintained almost everything on the engine is I believe his word. So I'm hoping for some real kick out of it once I get it in.

With that said, I'm coming close to a standstill on the 3.2l until I get a puller for the pulley and a hoist to pull the auto trans off...


On the 3.0l in the car:

I've got the y-pipe off the 3.0l (it was a epic battle, def not a SHOshop pipe like I thought, had to get to a front manifold nut with a wrench!!).

Getting ready to drain the oil,coolant,etc. What all should I disconnect while I am under the car? (I'm pulling the engine/trans out the top...]


On a side note, how much trouble would it be to delete the A/C system while I'm doing this swap?

 

[lowc]

On a side note, how much trouble would it be to delete the A/C system while I'm doing this swap?

deleting the ac is not hard at all the only thing is that you need to either keep the compresor on it and gut it (not sure how to) or make a custom plate to put where the compresor mounts. you need to have something there to support the bracket or else it will end up braking.

 

[vortex2450]

with regard to the oil pump, can I leave the 3.2l pump/assembly in place and move on?

IS there any big difference between the 3.2l and 3.0l pump?

Thanks

-Josh

 

[lowc]

yes you can use the 3.2 pump and oil pan. iirc the flow rate is a little better on the 3.2 pump

 

[vortex2450]

yes you can use the 3.2 pump and oil pan. iirc the flow rate is a little better on the 3.2 pump

So I can use the pump, but I thought had had to change to the 3.0l oil, pan? Can I use the 3.0 pan with the 3.2l pump?


Also, how many and whereare all the bolts that I need to access to disconnect the atx tans?

 

[lowc]

nope you can use the 3.2 pan aswell, they only thing about useing the 3.2 pump is, there is going to be a small opening on the side of the timming cover. i wanna say its only about 2 inches (might be a little more) its under the p/s pump. iirc the rear mount/ps bracket covers it. ive had this open since August and about 6k later throught snow and rain and have had no issues. asfar as trany bolts they are all in the same location as the 3.0(except two i belive that are located on the bottom)cant really remember right now

 

[vortex2450]

You positive the 3.2 won't create clearnace issues anywhere?

Either way,

With the opening, I don't like the idea, I would rather use the 3.0l pump and have everything sealed up nice and tight, that way I can also use the 3.0 pan..

Anyways, on progress. I had to go to school for a test and then run to harbor freight and buy the hoist, I also burnt an hour assembling the hoist....

Here's where I'm at...



The only thing still on the 3.2 are the oil pump/pan, exhaust manifolds and lift bracket..
Ohh and that ungodly heavy transmission hanging on the back for dear life

I also notice the garage is full of SHO parts....






NOW it looks like a SHO owner lives nearby, lol



The silver surfer is patiently waiting under the tarp for me to pull it's failing heart out.



Tomorrows goals?

- Get ATX trans off 3.2l
- Finish stripping 3.0l
- Pull 3.0l/Trans
- Bolt-Up flywheel/clutch/trans to 3.2l block...



BTW will the Valve covers from the 3.0 match up to the 3.2 heads?

 

[kevinspann]

Valve covers are the same.

 

[lowc]

yep no clearence issues i have the 3.2 pump and pan on mine. also dont know if it was said yet but you also have to swap over the 3.0 exhaust manifolds to the 3.2 block if not the rear one will be sitting on top of the rack and you wont be able to bolt up the y pipe.

and as far as the opening it looks fairly easy to patch it up useing some jb weld and a small piece of material.
now that i think of it, if you put the two pumps next to each other you will see where the opening would be. you would be looking at the left side of the pumps to see what im talking about

 

[vortex2450]

yep no clearence issues i have the 3.2 pump and pan on mine. also dont know if it was said yet but you also have to swap over the 3.0 exhaust manifolds to the 3.2 block if not the rear one will be sitting on top of the rack and you wont be able to bolt up the y pipe.

and as far as the opening it looks fairly easy to patch it up useing some jb weld and a small piece of material.
now that i think of it, if you put the two pumps next to each other you will see where the opening would be. you would be looking at the left side of the pumps to see what im talking about

Well maybe I'll reconsider keeping the 3.2l oil pump/pan..... The opening is a major bother tho, only problem is that I'm broke and don't have what it'd take to patch the gap....

And thanks to extensive reading of the SHOtimes swap article multiple times I know about the manifolds, I just kept the 3.2l manifolds on for now to lift the engine/tranny off the sub-frame...

Tomorrow is my first chance at a full day of work, I'll have a friend coming over @ noon so hopefully with his help and some grit I can accomplish enough to push me over the major hurdles...

hope I made this an interesting read..

-Josh

 

[Bob Gervais]

I'd use the 3.0 pan. Then you don't have to extend the wire for the oil level sensor, and the two bolts that go through it to the trans bellhousing will line up. Use the 3.2 oil pump, it flows a little better.

IIRC there's 8 bolts for the trans bellhousing. Two from the block side to the trans (which are also the alignment dowels), two from the oil pan to the trans, and four from the bellhousing to the block.

Looks like you're making good progress!

 

[lowc]

i always forget about that damm switch everytime i talk to some one about this swap

 

[Bob Gervais]

i always forget about that damm switch everytime i talk to some one about this swap

It's not a huge deal to extend the wire, or even to not have an oil level sensor. I haven't had one in mine for over 5 years. It doesn't leak (now that I've done my front 60k), and I usually check it once a week anyway...

 

[lowc]

yea i hear ya. although now you mention it i do have to recheck the connection on the wire i ran,every now an again the light will pop on for a day or so, or untill i jiggle the wire