3.0 Intake Cam Swap on a 3.2 ATX

[FOMOCOTOSHO]

So I was talking to Doug Lewis @ FPS today about a few things & my desire for some more low end power & torque on my '95 ATX. He suggested swapping out the intake cams from a 3.0L.

Has anyone else done this? How difficult is this? I've searched a few other threads on changing camshafts but I'm not very clear on EXACTLY what I would need to do or replace to do this. Here's my basic knowledge on what I need to do up to now

1) Remove Intake & Valve Covers
2) Remove Upper Timing Cover
3) Remove Timing Belt & Upper Cam Sprockets for timing belt
4) ???? This is where I am unsure. How do the cams come out? Do you need to pull the timing chain, sprockets, tensioner off on the other side? If so, how do you do that?
5) Are the specs that far off on the 3.0L Cam that the valve shim adjustment would be completely different? Or could I swap the shims?

Any help from someone who has done an actual cam swap (not just replacement) would be helpful if possible.

Thanks!

 

[Vnuk1]

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=106427&highlight=3.0+cam+swap

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=103295&highlight=3.0+cam+swap

 

[jonheese]

Bigblock's post in Vnuk1's second link pretty much outlines the whole process.

The only parts you're really missing in your steps above is to remove the cam shield, remove the cam caps (break them all loose in the reverse order that Bigblock specifies for torquing them, then go back and loosen them all up in the same reverse order), remove the cam tensioner bolts, then it should be obvious how the cam comes out.

Assembly is the reverse of disassembly. When putting the replacement cam on the timing chain, make sure to line the sprocket dots up with the "horizontal" edge of the head and the marked chain links. It should be somewhat obvious when you go to do it.

For a more in-depth explanation of the the WHOLE process (including cam timing and timing belt installation), check out pages 89-93 (PDF pages 59-63) of the SHO engine book:

http://www.jonheese.com/sho_engine_book.pdf
.

 

[SHObill]

I would ONLY consider doing this IF I were doing a complete Upper & Front 100K, because the motor really needed both done. At that point it may be easier to just swap in a set of 'good' 3.0 heads. Unless of coarse you have nothing better to do! There is just not enough 'gain' for the amount of time & labor.

 

[jonheese]

I would ONLY consider doing this IF I were doing a complete Upper & Front 100K, because the motor really needed both done. At that point it may be easier to just swap in a set of 'good' 3.0 heads. Unless of coarse you have nothing better to do! There is just not enough 'gain' for the amount of time & labor.

Agreed. I did it on my 3.2L swap because I was already adjusting the valve lash and replacing the timing belt. And I already had my 3.0L head apart for inspection anyway.

 

[SHOtimer]

Their are some older threads...I'll try to find. But, people found that really their wasn't much to gain.

Plus the threads in the head for the cam caps are very delicate and if you arn't being gentle and using the proper torque wrench they can strip.

**edit, couldn't find the thread, I think it was in the open forums that arn't saved. But, somebody did a dyno with 3.0 cams vs 3.2 cams in the same car, one day after the other. The only gain was 1 hp.

Doug

 

[rubydist]

3.0 intake cams will not help your low end torque, if anything they will hurt it. The only advantage to 3.0 intake cams is above 5500 rpm. I wouldn't waste my time on that one...

 

[firebat45]

3.0 intake cams will not help your low end torque, if anything they will hurt it. The only advantage to 3.0 intake cams is above 5500 rpm. I wouldn't waste my time on that one...

No kidding, I thought the whole point of 3.2 cams was more low end torque to help lug the ATX around.

 

[SHOtimer]

No kidding, I thought the whole point of 3.2 cams was more low end torque to help lug the ATX around.

Yup.

Doug

 

[SHOtime2511]

The bump in displacement was to help the ATX lug around a little better.
Why Ford decided to use different cams in the 3.2? who knows.
could be so they wouldn't have to place HP numbers higher than the Mustang of the era.
3.2L engines got a 7% bump in displacement/7% loss in cam profile.
Expect 5-8hp to the wheels with this mod,id wait till a 60K service to install like Bill said.

 

[FOMOCOTOSHO]

Thanks for the info guys. I'm not worried about my motor because I've done all the 60/100/120 front & upper in the last 20k miles including: cylinder head gasket & complete valve job, valve shim adjustment, cam & crank sensors and seals, spark plugs & wires, valve cover gaskets, oil pan gasket & rod bearings, alternator & p.s. pump, both idler pulleys, serpentine belt tensioner & belt, timing belt & water pump, Crank UDP.... I think that should be enough, LOL

What I am concerned is that it would seem I may have been misinformed from Doug Lewis about this swap giving me more low end torque/power. I trust your opinion Doug so can you clear this up if you read this? It seems several people have already tried this with no noticeable difference in low end.

It's hard to know what to do to these darn cars when 4 members tell you on thing and 6 other members tell you something completely opposite.

So what are your guys' thoughts on ported intakes & BBB's? I know the BBB's are designed for more upper end boost but what about the ported intakes? Do you get any low end advantages with that upgrade? Keep in mind I already have a new high-flow Y-pipe from Doug @ FPS as well as a complete cat back exhaust w/ Flowmaster 40's, as well as a snorkel CAI & a Superchips Chip. (I tried the LPM from SHO Source but we've finally given up on that not working---long story)

Thanks for everyone's input!

 

[rubydist]

From my study of the Honda vTech technology, the lower lift provides better efficiency at lower engine speeds, as it effectively reduces valve overlap. This lower lift / lower overlap may actually provide slightly better torque numbers at lower engine speeds. The higher lift / increased overlap provides better breathing at higher engine speeds and therefore more power at high rpms.

 

[boat]

FOMOCOTOSHO,
I have a 3.2 MTX that had 3.2 heads, I have just swapped in some low mileage 3.0 heads, and putting in the crank UDP from SHOSource. My front main and cam seals were leaking bad enough it was time to do the front 60 at the same time. I still need to finish up my front 60k and she should be ready to roll. I will let you know how the "butt" dyno feels if there is any difference. I have had people tell me there is a difference from the 3.2 to the 3.0. We shall see. There maybe a difference and given this is an MTX, that might be the contributing factor to what people are speaking of.

 

[jonheese]

Thanks for the info guys. I'm not worried about my motor because I've done all the 60/100/120 front & upper in the last 20k miles including: cylinder head gasket & complete valve job, valve shim adjustment, cam & crank sensors and seals, spark plugs & wires, valve cover gaskets, oil pan gasket & rod bearings, alternator & p.s. pump, both idler pulleys, serpentine belt tensioner & belt, timing belt & water pump, Crank UDP.... I think that should be enough, LOL

FYI, I think the thought process here was "If you're gonna be in there anyway to do the upper 60k/100k, you have an OK excuse to do the cam swap at the same time", not "If you're gonna do the cam swap, you'd better have a nice tight engine that can 'handle' them".

 

[boat]

I have noticed a difference with the 3.2 MTX after I have driven about 500+ miles with the 3.0 heads. It feels less torquey off the line, but stronger the higher you are in the RPMs.

This car runs so smooth and effortlessly and quiet now, but I am leaking oil again

 

[zak]

Boat, thanks for the report.

Are the cam seals the leak point? Which brand did you use (Ford, Felpro, National)?

 

[boat]

I think they are the leak point. Its not the front main, I know I saw it dry on Friday when I was snooping around under there. My rear motor mount and ac compressor had some oil on them. My cam sensor on the bottom of it was dry. Unless it might be the ends of the valve covers.

I used Ford OEM cam seals.

Boat, thanks for the report.

Are the cam seals the leak point? Which brnad did you use (Ford, Felpro, National)?