3.0 Cam sprocket/cam jammmed

[DetroitSHO-out]

Hey folks, new SHO owner here in need of some assistance.

I was lining up the timing mark on the crankshaft sprocket and "noticed" (aka imagined) that the mark on the leftmost camshaft sprocket was a little bit off center from the mark on the rear of the timing cover. In reality it was probably fine, but being finicky I decided to try and adjust it half a centimeter to make it perfect. Well instead of turning a little bit, it kinda sprung forward 30 degrees and is now totally out of wack with the mark and the other sprocket. When I try to continue to rotate it, it takes a lot of force and essentially springs back to the same position. Here's pictures of the two sprockets.

The top picture is the one I'm having trouble with, it's essentially stuck in that position for the time being.

My question is how do I proceed from here? I know when turning the crankshaft it gets easier or harder to turn depending on where you are in the cycle, but I'm not sure if that means the same rules apply here. Do I have to just brute force it back around or am I going to have to take the top end apart and do it that way? Maybe I can put the belt back on and turn the whole engine until it's easier to adjust? Is there a chance i damaged something? I'm doing the 60k so I know I'm going to have access to the cams eventually, but I don't want to potentially create a bigger mess down the road If i don't have to. I'm not exactly a mechanic so this is way outside my area of expertise.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[rubydist]

Yup, that cam is aligned with several of the valves fully open, so you have to balance it exactly in the right spot to get it to stay there. And, yes, the springs are quite stiff, so it takes a fair amount of force to rotate the cam to that orientation.

 

[DetroitSHO-out]

So I just gotta bruce force it back around until it lines back up? I was reading on one of the guides that loosening up the spark plugs releases pressure from the engine. That was for turning the crankshaft though, would that help me here?

Appreciate the help.

 

[rubydist]

Nope cause you are not turning the crank here, just the cams.

 

[BaySHO Performance]

I have this problem pretty much every time I do a timing belt. Solution is to insert a 12mm long ring wrench between the sprocket splines and lever it back into place. Once lined up, it will stay in place. Be careful not to damage the black plastic dust shield behind it. No need to do anything else such as removing the spark plugs.

 

[DetroitSHO-out]

Appreciate the help ya'll. Naturally I wake up and it's pouring down raining, so im probably going have to wait a little bit to get back to it, but I'll check back in when I'm done.

 

[DetroitSHO-out]

Well I figured the timing sprocket situation out but then I immediately went and bent the timing belt tensioner spring. I then ordered what I thought was a "kit" but naturally it only came with the new tensioner and not the spring for it. Is there an actual kit I can order that has the spring or is this going to be something I'm going to have to track down?

We tried to heat and roll the bent spring but that doesn't appear to have been particularly effective, and the only other thing to try is to manually set the tensioner and tighten it down, but I'm not sure that makes much sense either.

On a slightly related note, I bought a T-shirt a while ago from Shosource that says "Sh*t Happens Often" and that's looking like a solid candidate for the best purchase I've made so far

 

[BaySHO Performance]

Timing belt tensioner pulley spring, MTX E9DZ-6L273-A if you can find one. No known aftermarket alternative.

 

[DetroitSHO-out]

I did a search for that already and it didn't seem to bring up much. Saw a guy on here that said he had a few used ones about a year ago, so I might try to go that route if there's no alternative or workaround.

Sheeesh

 

[kevinspann]

I know I've got a spring.

 

[DetroitSHO-out]

I know I've got a spring.

I found one, dude I was talking about in the previous post hooked me up.

Which brings me to my next question, does anybody have any tips on putting a new timing belt on? because it's kicking my ***.

The new belt (gates t248) is tight as **** compared to the old one, which is natural, but I can't get the marks lined up to save my life.

Thoughts: I've been trying to put the belt on with the tensioner on because the 2 guides I've looked at put the belt on with the tensioner on, but it's not really working for me. I have the tensioner locked in the correct position (with minimal tension on the belt) but it still feels like there's nothing to work with. Is it easier/possible to install the tensioner after the belt? I do have the crank bolt on though, so im guessing that could be the issue but then what's the best way to get the crankshaft lined up with the bolt off?

My second thought is: is there an easy way to tell if I have a 3.2 instead of the 3.0? Seems kinda far fetched to me, but I've read on here that swapping 3.2s into the MTXs is a thing, and I know basically nothing about the car's history for the 177k miles before I owned it, so im just trying to explore all possibilities. Reason being is: when we actually finally got the new belt on, everything thing lined up on the 3.2 mark. Now with the old belt (which isn't a gates, and only has one timing mark on the bottom), we were able to just baaarely get the mark to line up, and to my eye it looked like it was about where the "3.0" line would be on the new belt once you factor in the stretchiness of the old belt. The main caveat being we didn't have the tensioner on for most of those attempts so it might not have even been that close. (Guess I'll have to test that)

Last idea I have is maybe I have the wrong belt? Every site I've checked says it's the right one, but maybe you folks who have real time with these cars know better. At this point I'm open to any advice because this is NOT the part of this process I expected to have trouble with lol.

Sorry for the wall of text, thanks for any help in advance.

 

[Irish Pride]

If you have the tensioner set and locked in the complete "loose" position there will be plenty of room to install the belt. Make sure that you have the spring in the correct position behind the tensioner and make sure you have the tensioner rotated clock wise all the way. Make sure you are rotating it clock wise.

The belt goes on with the print readable from the drivers side. If the belt has two marks, one for 3.0 and one for 3.2 then you have the correct belt.

When people do the 3.2 swap they install the 3.0 accessories so it doesn't matter whether you have a 3.0 or a 3.2. If you have the manual tensioner with the spring then you have the 3.0 system.

-Chad

 

[rubydist]

The other thing that makes your life a lot easier, is to have the crank rotated a few degrees counter-clockwise from where the mark on the crank sprocket lines up with the mark on the oil pump. This allows a bit of slack on the belt as you slip it on, and as you tighten the tensioner, the crank will rotate into the proper orientation. If you get the 3 marks on the belt all lined up, then you are golden.

 

[zoomlater]

its possible to install the belt backwards and line up the three marks (and your engine will just spin and not start), make sure the belt wording is correct as Chad mentioned above and line up the mark on the oil pump and crankshaft pulley as well. see attached pictures from the SHO engine book

 

[BaySHO Performance]

Chad suggests moving the crank a little anticlockwise to get the belt on. Or you can do what I do, which is to rotate the cam sprockets a little clockwise. The top of the lettering on the belt should be closest to the fender. Gates T248 is what I use. You will need to remove the crankshaft bolt to get it on. Helps if you have an impact wrench to do this so that the crank doesn't turn as you remove the bolt.

 

[rubydist]

My issue with Nick's idea is that the one cam tends to not want to stay there if you don't have it exactly lined up with the mark, since you have some valves wide open at that point.

 

[DetroitSHO-out]

We managed to get the belt back on earlier, so thanks for all the help everybody. I think one of my issues was that I had the crank bolt on, and I was also a little bit frustrated from the rest of the shenanigans, but we got it figured out. Understanding where and how to get wiggle room certainly helped.

I did have a question about the cps though, mainly the gap. I read that it had to be gapped at,.03 inches, but is it fine for it to be a little over? I used a feeler guage to set it, but I kinda levered it up a little while we were tightening it down. I guess I was just anxious about not having enough clearance. Can too large of a gap cause problems?

 

[luigisho]

I think so but I don't know if there is a way to say this is too much other than it doesn't run correctly. I think rubydist had it in a post with the feeler gauge and press the sensor so it is touching while tightening the fasteners.

 

[rubydist]

The issue is not too large of gap on the top side but too small of gap on the bottom side. If the shutter wheel hits the sensor it destroys it. Make sure that won't happen!

 

[BaySHO Performance]

My issue with Nick's idea is that the one cam tends to not want to stay there if you don't have it exactly lined up with the mark, since you have some valves wide open at that point.

You do run the risk of the rear cam rotating forward by several degrees, so I'm careful to not rotate it enough for that to happen.