Clutch out coasting 40+, hard grinding

[shovermont]

well i went for a long trip this weekend to albany and was praying nothing would go wrong with the taurus and nothing did until i was about 10 miles from my house. i was close to a car cause i hadnt really had my foot off the gas for a while so i figured i would coast in neutral. i let the clutch out not in gear and i get a fairly high pitched grinding noise. i immediatly put the clutch back down and the noise went away. i put the car back in gear and no problem. i coasted into town still in gear with no trouble and tried it again. still noise but i was going slower and the noise wasnt pitched as high. the faster i go the faster whatevers grinding is grinding. slowing down to about 30 there was no noise. no noise while accelerating hard, slow or moving in reverse. i searched through forums and didnt find anything. luckily i have two cars, thought that is a good move with an SHO. any help would be great. thanks a lot.

 

[shovermont]

oh also when its above 2500 rpms with the clutch out no noise. im thinking maybe motor mounts or something, clutch or tranny maybe? i have no idea

 

[Acidic]

I had a throwout bearing that had the same symptoms, of course when I went to do the clutch it turned out that one of the diff pins had liberated itself from the transmission...

 

[shovermont]

are you serious? it was driving good in gear? if you could list some symptoms that would be great.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

I was thinking TOB too, but if the diff blew you probably would have herd a nic loud pop and smell tranny fluid burning off the exhaust.

 

[shovermont]

nope no nick or hard pop. im really hoping its a TOB. it sounds like it is coming from right underneath my shifter which might make me think its a throwout bearing more. maybe a little ways in front of the shifter. i have heard maybe a synchro? i dont know much about transmissions but i have really been wanting to take one apart for as long as i have been working on cars so i guess i get to at least check the clutch hah.

 

[SHO#7]

Noise with clutch pedal in = Bad Throw out bearing
Noise with clutch out = Noise in transmission

Check the fluid level. I think you have a bearing in there that wants fluid.

Mike

 

[shovermont]

hmmm good adivce. ill do a search on checking it. i have never done it on a sho before. its off the road for the winter so it will ahve plenty of time to recover and be fresh for next year. any advice on checking the fluid?

 

[SHO#7]

Pull the plug. If fluid runs out it is full. If fluid does not run out, it is low. Add fluid to a low transmission. Replace the transmission if the fluid is full.

Mike

 

[shovermont]

how can i be 100 percent sure its the transmission. i mean it sounds good and all but the car drives perfect in gear. i will check it and if its full you deffinatly think it will be bad? and where are the bolts for checking? thanks

 

[Acidic]

MY diff pin went without much drama and it was the fluid that leaked over to the clutch area that killed the TOB... it lasted I'm guessing about 3k miles. I have an idea of when the diff pin went but it wasn't a bang or a pop, just a hard stumble... I'd guess TOB first, either way you have to drop the tranny and it will be very obvious if a diff pin has left the building...

 

[zak]

Take the starter out, turn the engine over by hand and inspect the clutch using a mirror and small light.

Beats removing the tranny . . . . as a first diangostic step. You may have liberated a pressure plate drive strap (any aggressive downshifts lately?)

 

[shovermont]

nope no aggresive downshifts, a few downshifts for sure but nothing that would have kicked it real hard. i had my cruise control set the whole back from NY, i just climbed a huge mountain and on the way down is when i put it in nuteral. acidic, when your diff pin went did you get the same sort of feeling i get with a grinding with the clutch out. see it just makes no sense that a bad differential pin would make a grinding noise, thats why i was thinking something is out of line, either motor mount maybe, syncro or something in the clutch or maybe the TOB. oh well cant do much from college though, guess this will be a weekend project

 

[shovermont]

Take the starter out, turn the engine over by hand and inspect the clutch using a mirror and small light.

Beats removing the tranny . . . . as a first diangostic step. You may have liberated a pressure plate drive strap (any aggressive downshifts lately?)

ok so whats a pressure plate drive strap first off. i had a good friend of mine who knows what i think to be quite alot about cars tell me sounds like a TOB. i hope that is what it is. still need to try to narrow it down. and when i t ake out the starter if that is a good place to begin, what should i be looking for? damn car haha oh and im gonna check the fluid when i do this.

 

[shovermont]

anything? im waiting to get a good hold on what might be wrong before i rip this thing apart. i have never done this but i am ready too and willing but i wont go crazy without knowing 90% what might be wrong, thanks

 

[zak]

A search of "drive strap" might help.

There are three metal straps at the outside diameter of the pressure plate, they are a shiney metal especially compared to the cast iron pressure plate. They transmit the torque between the pressure plate back iron and the flywheel. Sometimes, one of the rivets at each end can break and then the strap swings outward, contacting the bellhousing and making a screeching/grinding sound.

You need a mirror because you are trying to look at 90 degrees to the axis of the starter. You will have to rotate the engine around to inspect all three. Not sure how visible the throwout bearing will be but if you can see it see if the black rubber grease seal is still intact, of whether the inner race has started to wear into the clutch fingers (the later is a problem with stock TOBs, the ceramic one can cure this). Sometimes a couple of fingers will collapse completely which side loads the TOB. Usually this is accompanied by difficult shifting however.


Finally, although your fluid is not low (how did you check this?) it is certainly possible that the input shaft bearing is fried. How many miles on the transmission? Maybe try changing the fluid to something a little thicker such as Redline MTL (at your speed shop).

A clutch change/trans removal on a northeast car is no picnic, many fasteners will be corroded and frozen. A 6 point 15 mm socket and imapct tools are a requirement zak

 

[cmeseadoin]

Pull the plug. If fluid runs out it is full. If fluid does not run out, it is low. Add fluid to a low transmission. Replace the transmission if the fluid is full.

Mike

I just HAVE to take this opportunity to point out more stellar advise from resident geniouses!! So, we have a high pitched whine we think is in the trasmission and the car is otherwise driving normally. We have everyone speculating everything from the diff pins blowing out (probably not ) to the TOB (much more likely). Gee WHIZ, lets just drop a new transmission and that will definitely solve the problem huh? Better yet, just buy a new car, that will solve the problem too! F'n idiot!

To the publisher of:
Noise with clutch pedal in = Bad Throw out bearing
Noise with clutch out = Noise in transmission

This is not the case in MANY cases. When the pedal is depressed to the floor, you are LOADING the TOB, thus LESS likely to have noise, thus shutting it up. When your pedal is released, there is no load on the components of the slave cylinder to the TOB, therefore, more likely for the bearing to talk back to you. Some good advise: If the noise is TOTALLY controlled by your activities with the clutch pedal, then guess what, odds are it is something to do wtih the components of that system. The only thing that could whine is really the TOB.... UNLESS you are spinning a worn out bearing/gear on the input shaft of the tranny when the driveline is locked ie) clutch OUT. You said you put the clutch out in neutral and had the noise, then back in before putting it in gear and it went away. Odds are we know what your problem is.............Either TOB or worn gear/bearing on the input shaft of the tranny.

I think you should just put a new transmission in the car and then your car will be like new.

 

[shovermont]

wow some more refined answers, thanks to cmeseadoin and zak. i really really appreciate it. this is going to probably take the whole fall/winter and maybe spring to fix. im in no rush since now i am back in college and have more important things to work on. i know this noise is not good and luckily it started when i was very close to my house and didnt have to put to many miles on it before it was parked. i think its going to get a whole new clutch and TOB in it just for kicks. so i removed the starter once and i am very familiar with how that goes.



so i should be looking stright up from the whole where the starter goes in and check to see how the TOB sits and the three straps that go onto the pressure plate? but like i said once again i think that if i find anything wrong, new clutch and new TOB. any other ideas would be great but really thanks again for all the help. freakin cars

 

[SHO#7]

To the publisher of:
Noise with clutch pedal in = Bad Throw out bearing
Noise with clutch out = Noise in transmission

QUOTE]

I am not sure who you are, or who you think you are. But picking a dispute with me is not what you want to do. I have rebuilt the transmission in more cars on this forum, than members you know.

I did not say that was his problem... And thanks for picking me out. I dont get to often state that I am an ASE certified Master Tech and Master Rebuilder. I dont get to state that I own a transmission shop, or that I am on my 16th SHO.

I really do not know sh*t about cars. I am just an internet warrior. So I will go back under my rock. Thanks for setting me strait, Ass.

Mike :wave:

 

[SHO#7]

there is no load on the components of the slave cylinder to the TOB,QUOTE]

Last SHO with a slave cylinder... Does yours have a slave cylinder...


Mike OH, it's me again :wave: