The HP Tuners Misconception: Control vs Abstraction on the EcoBoost SHO

[mattr66usa]

The hole he has dug is soooo deep. He thinks he's the Borg but he's running on a 286 processor......

Hey Andrew want to put up a little wager you won't run anything in the 10s by February?

 

[TheRedBeardedFury]

I wonder how many shos Ryan's actually tuned. Sure he's known for the newer mustangs but there not the same. Matt or anybody else isn't making up missing parameters for the 10-12 pcms. Unless your going standalone or swapping to 13+ pcm what's rayns plan to get around this? His hesitant response for anything missing and him saying not that I can think of has me wary he even knows about the 10-12 pcms.

 

[Sleeper.Solutions86]

I wonder how many shos Ryan's actually tuned. Sure he's known for the newer mustangs but there not the same. Matt or anybody else isn't making up missing parameters for the 10-12 pcms. Unless your going standalone or swapping to 13+ pcm what's rayns plan to get around this? His hesitant response for anything missing and him saying not that I can think of has me wary he even knows about the 10-12 pcms.

Posting the stock base file that Ryan built the file for Andrew’s car on will tell the entire story. For both sides of the fence. [mention]802SHO [/mention] just post the stock hpt file.


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[mattr66usa]

The project simply moved beyond what SCT can practically support on this platform. When system-level recalibration, torque-model visibility, and control resolution matter, you either have the tooling and experience……or you don’t.

You don't even know what you are saying..... more nonsense blabber.

I’m working with a professional tuner whose background spans HP Tuners, MoTeC, and COBB, with real results to back it up. He’s reviewed every modification, raised no concerns, and has already delivered a solid base map……with genuine anticipation for what this setup will do.

He's still limited to what's available in the software. Your ego is already writing checks that your tuner can't cash at the moment with the current software limitations. You just don't get it dude.....

 

[TheRedBeardedFury]

Posting the stock base file that Ryan built the file for Andrew’s car on will tell the entire story. For both sides of the fence. [mention]802SHO [/mention] just post the stock hpt file.


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Oh I know but he's gonna refuse to do so and we all know why.

 

[802SHO]

Ok so hear me out.

This is some real tuner identity crisis ********.

You know when somebody was the shit — legitimately — five, six, seven years ago. They were ahead. They earned it. Then time passed. Tooling changed. Models opened up. Data got better. The game moved on.

But they didn’t.

Now they’re still operating like they’re that guy, except the information is stale. Not even loud-stale. Quiet stale. Like milk that doesn’t stink anymore but has turned that weird white color. You don’t gag — you just go,

“…nah.”

So I’m over here building, breaking assumptions, fixing them, moving forward — and suddenly it’s DEFCON 1 because I’m not living inside a 2017 comfort zone.

No new data.
No real rebuttals.
Just recycled certainty and aggressive confidence.

That’s when it clicks: this isn’t a technical disagreement. It’s identity preservation.

Because when someone’s whole sense of relevance was earned years ago — and never updated — the scariest thing isn’t being wrong.

It’s being outdated and convinced you’re still right.
I’ll keep building in the present.
They can keep defending the past.

The car doesn’t care who used to be the shit……besides, we all know the GOAT of SCT is really AJPTurbo….and where he couldn’t take it…Ryan will with HP Tuners.

 

[Sleeper.Solutions86]

Ok so hear me out.

This is some real tuner identity crisis ********.

You know when somebody was the shit — legitimately — five, six, seven years ago. They were ahead. They earned it. Then time passed. Tooling changed. Models opened up. Data got better. The game moved on.

But they didn’t.

Now they’re still operating like they’re that guy, except the information is stale. Not even loud-stale. Quiet stale. Like milk that doesn’t stink anymore but has turned that weird white color. You don’t gag — you just go,

“…nah.”

So I’m over here building, breaking assumptions, fixing them, moving forward — and suddenly it’s DEFCON 1 because I’m not living inside a 2017 comfort zone.

No new data.
No real rebuttals.
Just recycled certainty and aggressive confidence.

That’s when it clicks: this isn’t a technical disagreement. It’s identity preservation.

Because when someone’s whole sense of relevance was earned years ago — and never updated — the scariest thing isn’t being wrong.

It’s being outdated and convinced you’re still right.
I’ll keep building in the present.
They can keep defending the past.

The car doesn’t care who used to be the shit……besides, we all know the GOAT of SCT is really AJPTurbo….and where he couldn’t take it…Ryan will with HP Tuners.

I think there are some major identity and mental issues going on with you. I just asked for a stock file. Not an irrelevant synopsis from chat GPT.


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[mattr66usa]

Ok so hear me out.

This is some real tuner identity crisis ********.

You know when somebody was the shit — legitimately — five, six, seven years ago. They were ahead. They earned it. Then time passed. Tooling changed. Models opened up. Data got better. The game moved on.

But they didn’t.

Now they’re still operating like they’re that guy, except the information is stale. Not even loud-stale. Quiet stale. Like milk that doesn’t stink anymore but has turned that weird white color. You don’t gag — you just go,

“…nah.”

So I’m over here building, breaking assumptions, fixing them, moving forward — and suddenly it’s DEFCON 1 because I’m not living inside a 2017 comfort zone.

No new data.
No real rebuttals.
Just recycled certainty and aggressive confidence.

That’s when it clicks: this isn’t a technical disagreement. It’s identity preservation.

Because when someone’s whole sense of relevance was earned years ago — and never updated — the scariest thing isn’t being wrong.

It’s being outdated and convinced you’re still right.
I’ll keep building in the present.
They can keep defending the past.

The car doesn’t care who used to be the shit……besides, we all know the GOAT of SCT is really AJPTurbo….and where he couldn’t take it…Ryan will with HP Tuners.

Blah Blah Blah...... You are so **** bent on making me look bad that you don't realize that all you've done is make yourself look even more stupid. I didn't even think that was possible, but I'm pleasantly surprised. You've actually helped me educate those that would listen that have blindly followed you thinking you actually knew something but now have proven you don't.

Basic engine dynamics haven't changed in the last 50 years, but you act like you are doing something unheard of without understanding the true limits of the platform you chose. That's just dumb.

I mean I met a guy that once had the worlds quickest Pinto, but I don't remember his name. Nobody cared that he made the world's fastest Pinto because it was still a Pinto. Instead of buying a mustang or vette with all that money you chose to build the worlds quickest Ecoboost SHO and faster by a few tenths isn't going to be worth all the trouble and money you put into it. A car that looks like it should run 8s that runs 10.50 won't be that special.

It's like buying a roping horse and getting 9th place in the Kentucky Derby with it. Yeah you were kind of fast but not enough to matter.

I don't have anything to prove, and you put yourself on this pedestal. Falling off of it is all your doing because we could have all gotten along and cheered you on, but noooooo you had to try and make it about a tuner war for some unknown reason....... You had to bring me over here to defend the way I do things because you really don't understand anything I've ever tried to tell you about this platform and still refuse to listen to factual information. Why did you even consider coming to me in the first place if I am such a horrible tuner?

You are building a track-only 4 door sedan that can't be legally driven on the street that looks really cool....... Super! You are 1 of 1! I was really liking your build, but it's hard to like a car owned by someone that constantly takes a dump on others to try and lift themselves. Eventually, people like you always end up drowning in the cesspool (sewage for your understanding) that they created.

You've done enough talking for someone that doesn't have a track-capable car. Why don't you prove me wrong already and go run some 9s. Your energy is being completely wasted by trying to tear me down constantly.

PS: I sometimes feel sorry for you and bad for having to post things like this, but then I think about it all and realize you really deserve it...

 

[802SHO]

I think there are some major identity and mental issues going on with you. I just asked for a stock file. Not an irrelevant synopsis from chat GPT.


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I guess you’re not into comedy — because that was a Dave Chappelle-style skit about this entire situation in a nutshell.

But since you missed that, let’s reset.

You’re still reaching for files because you don’t actually have a position. Sharing a stock file or a professional tuner’s base map is completely irrelevant to anything you’re trying to imply. My stock ECU strategy is Green Oak 2368K — that’s not a mystery, and it’s not a problem. There are no concerns there, and there never were.

More importantly, the car is already operating on a valid HP Tuners base map for an XDI60, return-style fuel system, with an Aeromotive 3.5 GPM brushless pump controlled by TPS and 1:1 boost reference. The system is running. Edit: forgot XDI 2000cc injectors too. A professional HP Tuners calibrator is actively working with real data and has raised zero issues.

Asking for files isn’t technical diligence — it’s a tell. It’s what people do when they don’t understand the architecture and need something tangible to grab onto to feel relevant.

And to be clear: it’s not my responsibility to fill in the missing pieces for you that you clearly lack.
You’re not uncovering anything.
You’re not auditing anything.
And you’re not in a position to request anything.

This discussion is about control vs abstraction. If you had something substantive to add to that conversation, you would have done so already.

The issue here isn’t missing files.
It’s missing scope. Yours.

 

[802SHO]

Relevant timing

This is exactly the philosophy I’ve been describing throughout this thread — tuning built around the actual system, not generic files or abstraction shortcuts.

My car is already operating on a valid HP Tuners base map tailored to my specific hardware, and the process moving forward is iterative, data-driven, and integrated.

Execution > theory.
Results will speak.

 

[Sleeper.Solutions86]

View attachment 96374
Relevant timing

This is exactly the philosophy I’ve been describing throughout this thread — tuning built around the actual system, not generic files or abstraction shortcuts.

My car is already operating on a valid HP Tuners base map tailored to my specific hardware, and the process moving forward is iterative, data-driven, and integrated.

Execution > theory.
Results will speak.

Where are the results because I have the Green oak file open side by side with a tricore file on the Gods giving HP tuners software that I use on my car that I’ve personally tuned. And the parameters for adjusting the DI pump and injector profiles are not present for me. So how is Ryan making those adjustments? This is why I asked for the template his built the file that your car currently runs on.

You talk about results 24/7 with no results. So far it’s words and zero results.


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[mattr66usa]

Until the msv delay gets defined you will be missing on about 20% of your pump's volume at 6000 rpms..... but by all means, you know everything. Also be careful, until the driver amperage parameters appear for the DI injectors, you run the risk of them turning off above 2500 PSI at WOT. I was simply telling you that I didn't feel comfortable with the missing parameters because you sure as **** would have blamed me if something goes wrong and boy did I dodge a bullet by choosing not to do business with you especially after your after seeing your antics.

 

[DadMobile]

OK, Andrew. I'm just going to wish you the best and refrain from even posting in your threads. You, have, lost, your, GD mind. AI is about as useful in tuning your big-bucks garage sticker as it is in your actual posts. I don't think I've seen Brad post anything in regard to your never ending project. Does he have magic powers to tune a 10-12 ECU that no one else does? Do the windmills that Matt built ever get tilted?

I can refer you to someone if you'd like help with your AI and mental issues. ****, I can refer you to tuners who will tell you whatever the **** you want to believe if you send them money. Matt should just really stop even responding to you. He has at least one running car.

Perfectly said.

 

[DadMobile]

I did discover a real software and a real tuner. Matt has never tuned my car. The one time he almost did he ran when he somehow forgot then remembered it’s a 2010. Which is the biggest self-own there is. I don’t need to be a tuner to make informed decisions and walk away from tuning software and tuners…….?

He didn’t originally tune you because you reached out the week his dad died and he didn’t follow up fast enough. Then you got all butt-hurt and mad at him until I pointed it out. You literally have been raging at Matt for years because his dad died… Now that your failed 6 year build with another tuner isn’t running you blame Matt???

Use the AI to teach yourself some logic.

 

[DadMobile]

Until the msv delay gets defined you will be missing on about 20% of your pump's volume at 6000 rpms..... but by all means, you know everything. Also be careful, until the driver amperage parameters appear for the DI injectors, you run the risk of them turning off above 2500 PSI at WOT. I was simply telling you that I didn't feel comfortable with the missing parameters because you sure as **** would have blamed me if something goes wrong and boy did I dodge a bullet by choosing not to do business with you especially after your after seeing your antics.

You sure did dodge a bullet.

Lmfao hahahahahaha wow, holy shit. You are going to check Ryan Martin’s Work???!!!???!!!??!! That’s f hilarious.

While some people are still debating theoretical limits, the work is already underway.

I’m focused on execution with a tuner who’s confident in the platform, the tooling, and the direction.

Results will speak soon enough.

The results do speak for themselves, your build is a pile of parts.

 

[mattr66usa]

Man, I completely forgot the villain origin story here. 802 tried to contact me back in 2020 when my dad was dying of covid for months before he finally passed away in May. I wasn't getting back to him fast enough and thus the reason he hated me in the first place. I have only ever been truthful with him. Whatever narrative that he tries to project onto me is just what his mind is making up. Lord knows that I don't want to operate in that space. I have always applauded his fabrication on this project and thought I could make it better for him. It is what it is at this point though..... It's a bridge that has been so destroyed at this point, there is no rebuilding.

 

[TheRedBeardedFury]

Man, I completely forgot the villain origin story here. 802 tried to contact me back in 2020 when my dad was dying of covid for months before he finally passed away in May. I wasn't getting back to him fast enough and thus the reason he hated me in the first place. I have only ever been truthful with him. Whatever narrative that he tries to project onto me is just what his mind is making up. Lord knows that I don't want to operate in that space. I have always applauded his fabrication on this project and thought I could make it better for him. It is what it is at this point though..... It's a bridge that has been so destroyed at this point, there is no rebuilding.

Man that's rough. Sorry to hear that! At the end of the day you can at least say you tried and that's what really matters. I think by now everyone's seen that and that 802 has his own issues he needs to work out.

 

[802SHO]

Looking back, my conclusions about Brad and SCT were drawn from a contaminated test subject. That doesn’t prove SCT was the right answer. It just means I can’t honestly say I gave it a fair electrical and mechanical baseline to judge from.

 

[802SHO]

I tried one of Brads last tunes this weekend in SCT. I even did another crank relearn after I went back into Rev67. Drivability that I just got back in Ryan’s ReV8 file with crank relearn was lost. It was lazy shifting and felt off. Shifts were rougher but not by much…just off. A big step in the wrong direction.

I tried it bc SCT has notoriously been the software for all the EcoBoost SHO’s. What I’m up against now is HPTuners limited support in comparison despite it being overall such a more capable software.

I believe every 93 canned tuned blows by 368 engine brake torque …that’s a stock limit. I’m in a software prison right now with the limiter paths not exposed.

Brads tune did learn some and improve some on my way back home from the restaurant we went to. About 25 min one way. It felt more powerful as it was an 18 or 20 psi tune but I immediately regretted it bc of the drivability I lost from Ryan’s tune. The lazy shifts and stuff are just so unattractive since it was literally perfect for the first time.

We stopped on the way back to take pics.
I also tried another hobbyist model calibration in HPTuners the day before and also lost drivability I had gained. But hit the same engine speed limit path.

-So I got drivability back in R8 after crank relearn. Hit engine speed limit.
-tried another HPTuners model calibration and lost drivability and hit engine speed limit.
-flashed back to stock, then back to Brads Rev67. Gained power but dead system DTC’s all back and it also didn’t have drivability despite a crank relearn first and the car mechanically healthy. But to be fair Rev67 was chasing bad mechanical health…so maybe Brads first power tune after engine break-in when he believed the system was healthy may have been the better file to try.

Either way, Ryan is going to nudge Eric Brooks again today. So either A) Eric finds everything (which if he has time to look I’m sure he will) and we unleash this thing finally. I prefer A bc I really like VCM scanner and how I can go through files.

Or B) tell Ryan to put the shiny cool tool down that can’t turn the bolt….and use the tool that fits already and already has exposed the levers needed which would be SCT. At some point you just use the damn tool that already works.

I also tried to setup scanner to log Brad’s file in SCT and it kicked me out of all channels except SAE channels. Which were only 3. I went back and tried to make a new list and there’s only like 11 channels that are SAE. So pointless to log in scanner with SCT. I remember hearing that’s an option. Well I can report…not really.

So soon…more channels in HPTuners?
Or back to the tool already capable, SCT?

Ppl who just shout…it doesn’t work with no context. See when you actually have experience in 10-12, “doesn’t work” isn’t accurate.

It worked great drivability was the best so far…power wants to rip, channels are amazing to log but right now it just appears some limiter paths aren’t exposed. But it’s actively being taken directly to Eric Brooks. Not a customer support ticket. Ryan directly to Eric.

13+ seems like it is supported enough to work though.

 

[802SHO]

I’ve been talking with another ‘12 SHO HPTuners self-tuned guy David S and his OS is different despite same ECU family.

-My ‘10 Green Oak OS is DMJKBL5

-David’s 2012 Green Oak OS is DMJKVTD.

So they are not the same OS. He said he’s been able to max at 599 lb/ft engine brake torque and he’s now getting ETC intervention and torque source: Engine speed limit too!

So swapping OS’ isn’t exactly escaping this limiter path.

I shared this with Ryan and he asked me if David could send him a file so he can compare tables. I asked David and he said ok.

It’ll be interesting to see what’s different or not. While I guess we all wait for Eric to chime in.

It’ll be cool if we can literally get an OS definition update from all this. Just from actually caring enough to push a solution.