Water pump and timing chain
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luigisho
SHO Member
Is it going in for maintenance replacements or for a failure of the waterpump?
Maintenance. Car runs fine but throws the code for cam phaser and has a slight rattle on cold start.
Ta2dResqr
SHO Member
Curious to see their breakdown.
I've opened a complaint with Ford Corporate. But if anyone happens to be in NW Arkansas.... stay away from Lewis Ford. This is the second time they've done this BS to me. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Labor was $1375. Parts somehow ended up being $1721.41. I see they replaced the thermostat, which ***** since I had a 170 degree in there from when I tuned it.
Ta2dResqr
SHO Member
Labor seems right on target. Parts seems pretty high. What all did they replace? Are the prices over MSRP? Did they provide a quote? Is there a law in Arkansas that requires them to provide and stay true to the estimate? I know Ohio has one and requires the following to be posted in a conspicuous place : "Notice - If the expected cost of a repair or service is more than twenty-five dollars, you have the right to receive a written estimate, **** estimate, or you can choose to receive no estimate before we begin work. Your bill will not be higher than the estimate by more than five dollars or ten per cent, whichever is greater, unless you approve a larger amount before repairs are finished. Ohio law requires us to give you a form so that you can choose either a written, ****, or no estimate."
Ta2dResqr
SHO Member
Good lord! Looks like if they touched it, they replaced it. Every bolt, sensor, sprocket, etc. I can look better tomorrow to see what is recommended and the procedure. I can understand o-rings and gaskets. I know some bolts are one time use. That list looks like overkill though. The other downside, is aftermarket will often sell "kits", like an intake kit. It will include all the gaskets for that job. This looks like they did individual parts and almost everything is full MSRP.
SilvererSHO
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They replaced half the parts on the car but not the 2x cam phasers? And what's an "e-tube asy" @ almost $100?
I guess they don't call it the stealership for nothing! Is the retro looking circa 1975'ish billing statement supposed to make you feel better after the molestation?
FWIW, I request every single part back from my car every time it's touched. If you did that you'd have your old thermostat back at least.
I guess they don't call it the stealership for nothing! Is the retro looking circa 1975'ish billing statement supposed to make you feel better after the molestation?
FWIW, I request every single part back from my car every time it's touched. If you did that you'd have your old thermostat back at least.
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I should have, but I had no idea they would even mess with the thermostat.
Since they put in the vc13 coolant, I now have about a gallon and a half of the unobtanium vc3b orange coolant if anyone needs it.
Ta2dResqr
SHO Member
So I am at work and looking it over now. Things of concern:
-Oil and Oil filter? The way they nickle and dimed you on every o-ring, bolt, cleaner, etc. I can't see them tossing those in for free. The filter needs removed and the oil drained. Did they reuse them? If so, one of the reasons they drain the oil is possible coolant contamination when removing the pump.
-They charged you for 2 gallons of concentrate. The entire system takes 2.775 gallons. Even if they went 60/40 for extreme cold climate, there should be a half gallon of concentrate left (enough to make a full gallon diluted, pretty significant amount). At 50/50 there should be 3/4 of a gallon of concentrate. At ~$20/gallon, if you are going to charge me for it, I would like to have it. In addition, draining the system usually will not drain the entire system. There is usually coolant trapped in hoses, block, heater core, block, etc. This would easily make it so the job should have been able to be done with 1 gallon of concentrate.
-The Metal Surface Cleaner is a bottle of 25 wipes. Again, doubt they used 25 on one car, if I paid for it, I want it. (Generally things like this are covered under the $40 MISC charge. The shop has one of these bottles on hand. A tech uses let's say 5 wipes. Instead of charging the customer 20% of the bottle price, they just use $2 of the Misc category. It is often called Shop Supplies or Shop Fees also. This is the same fees that cover stuff like the RTV, Threadlocker, etc.)
-No where in the procedure does it say to remove the thermostat or housing. Not only does this result in $30 extra parts, and draining extra coolant, you lost your low temp thermostat. Seems like unneeded work to pad the bill.
-No where in the procedure does it say to disconnect the A/C system. Yet, you are charged for "32 R134A". Next question is what is "32"? If this is ounces, a completely evacuated system calls for 23 ounces. What were the extra 9 for? Where is the A/C System Service? If you open the system (the only reason you would need to refill it), you need to do a service which includes Recovery, Evacuation (minimum of 45 minutes vacuum and 5 minutes of maintaining a constant vacuum), and Charging. Again, with the way they nickel and dimed this bill, I do not see them throwing an hour of labor and a special machine use in for free.
-AA5Z-9J323-E Tube Asy, this is a stainless steel fuel line. Why was this replaced? If it was damaged by the Tech, this is not your $100 mistake.
-Camshaft Sprocket, Why in the world did this need replaced? I have only ever replaced these if adding adjustable timing gears. Outside of a catastrophic chain failure and damaging teeth or extreme wear from a vary abused/unmaintained motor, I cannot think of a single reason to remove and replace these.
-7T4Z-6K254-AA, 7T4Z-6K254-BA, I have not done this job on this car but, these 2 parts are labeled as the same item in parts drawings. Maybe someone else can clarify this.
-Solenoid, Why was this replaced? I saw you requested the sensors, did you request the solenoid too?
-All bolts listed, there are only 2 bolts that are required to be replaced. The VCT bolt and the Exhaust Camshaft bolt. Why were 7 replaced?
-Seals, O-Rings, only the crankshaft seal needs replaced. Throughout the procedure it specifically states to examine and reuse seals and o-rings unless damaged. I find it hard to believe 19 of them were damaged.
-Valve Cover items, they replaced 5 gaskets/seals on each side. This was $75 per side (some of them were over MSRP). The entire valve cover with all of the gaskets and seals MSRP is $157. Tasca sells them for $105. Seems a lot easier to install the whole assembly for minimal extra if you are going to slaim that every single seal was damaged.
-Every part is at or ABOVE MSRP. This is fairly surprising. Usually when it is a larger job, especially, they try to knock it down a little bit.
-Last thing I found interesting, Lewis Ford is not listed on the Ford parts site. If you put in their zip code. It directs you 90 miles away to a different dealer. Maybe they have had issues in the past? Maybe they just don't want involved with online sales?
Tl;Dr - Hope it came with Vaseline, seems like they nickel and dimed you in addition to some unneeded/unwarranted charges
-Oil and Oil filter? The way they nickle and dimed you on every o-ring, bolt, cleaner, etc. I can't see them tossing those in for free. The filter needs removed and the oil drained. Did they reuse them? If so, one of the reasons they drain the oil is possible coolant contamination when removing the pump.
-They charged you for 2 gallons of concentrate. The entire system takes 2.775 gallons. Even if they went 60/40 for extreme cold climate, there should be a half gallon of concentrate left (enough to make a full gallon diluted, pretty significant amount). At 50/50 there should be 3/4 of a gallon of concentrate. At ~$20/gallon, if you are going to charge me for it, I would like to have it. In addition, draining the system usually will not drain the entire system. There is usually coolant trapped in hoses, block, heater core, block, etc. This would easily make it so the job should have been able to be done with 1 gallon of concentrate.
-The Metal Surface Cleaner is a bottle of 25 wipes. Again, doubt they used 25 on one car, if I paid for it, I want it. (Generally things like this are covered under the $40 MISC charge. The shop has one of these bottles on hand. A tech uses let's say 5 wipes. Instead of charging the customer 20% of the bottle price, they just use $2 of the Misc category. It is often called Shop Supplies or Shop Fees also. This is the same fees that cover stuff like the RTV, Threadlocker, etc.)
-No where in the procedure does it say to remove the thermostat or housing. Not only does this result in $30 extra parts, and draining extra coolant, you lost your low temp thermostat. Seems like unneeded work to pad the bill.
-No where in the procedure does it say to disconnect the A/C system. Yet, you are charged for "32 R134A". Next question is what is "32"? If this is ounces, a completely evacuated system calls for 23 ounces. What were the extra 9 for? Where is the A/C System Service? If you open the system (the only reason you would need to refill it), you need to do a service which includes Recovery, Evacuation (minimum of 45 minutes vacuum and 5 minutes of maintaining a constant vacuum), and Charging. Again, with the way they nickel and dimed this bill, I do not see them throwing an hour of labor and a special machine use in for free.
-AA5Z-9J323-E Tube Asy, this is a stainless steel fuel line. Why was this replaced? If it was damaged by the Tech, this is not your $100 mistake.
-Camshaft Sprocket, Why in the world did this need replaced? I have only ever replaced these if adding adjustable timing gears. Outside of a catastrophic chain failure and damaging teeth or extreme wear from a vary abused/unmaintained motor, I cannot think of a single reason to remove and replace these.
-7T4Z-6K254-AA, 7T4Z-6K254-BA, I have not done this job on this car but, these 2 parts are labeled as the same item in parts drawings. Maybe someone else can clarify this.
-Solenoid, Why was this replaced? I saw you requested the sensors, did you request the solenoid too?
-All bolts listed, there are only 2 bolts that are required to be replaced. The VCT bolt and the Exhaust Camshaft bolt. Why were 7 replaced?
-Seals, O-Rings, only the crankshaft seal needs replaced. Throughout the procedure it specifically states to examine and reuse seals and o-rings unless damaged. I find it hard to believe 19 of them were damaged.
-Valve Cover items, they replaced 5 gaskets/seals on each side. This was $75 per side (some of them were over MSRP). The entire valve cover with all of the gaskets and seals MSRP is $157. Tasca sells them for $105. Seems a lot easier to install the whole assembly for minimal extra if you are going to slaim that every single seal was damaged.
-Every part is at or ABOVE MSRP. This is fairly surprising. Usually when it is a larger job, especially, they try to knock it down a little bit.
-Last thing I found interesting, Lewis Ford is not listed on the Ford parts site. If you put in their zip code. It directs you 90 miles away to a different dealer. Maybe they have had issues in the past? Maybe they just don't want involved with online sales?
Tl;Dr - Hope it came with Vaseline, seems like they nickel and dimed you in addition to some unneeded/unwarranted charges
SilvererSHO
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Nice work!
Ta2dResqr
SHO Member
Hope it helps.
luigisho
SHO Member
I'd like to hear from John and see what his opinion is. It looks like alot for parts but I never priced everything. Labor is going to be what it is and you pretty much know that going in. also if a company is going to guarantee their work they may insist on replacing certain items to limit possible comebacks. Does that mean you didn't overpay? Nope. but i'd like to hear from industry people on what is common practice. Or if there isn't any..
I quoted your response in my complaint with the BBB.
It's common practice at this dealership to quote you one price and then charge you about 50% more to get your car back.
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