LMS 3 bar V11 93 bounces off rev limiter

[tech10002]

Just curious if anyone had a clue what was going on. When I first flashed my v11 93 octane, when you were doing maximum acceleration runs, it would bounce off the rev limiter and refuse to shift on the 2-3 shift sometimes. It also did it after a kick down when passing. I emailed LMS and they did something to the tune that seemed to eliminate the issue and they wanted to know if I was spinning and if that was causing it. I only noticed it happening at WOT in the 60-70 MPH range so I was pretty certain I wasn’t spinning.

I just drove a few hundred miles and had a couple times I had to quickly pass trucks up a mountain and it’s bouncing off the rev limiter near 90 MPH now and refuses to shift until you back off. I KNOW I’m not spinning at 90, so there must be something going on, but I got the impression from the tone of the LMS email that they didn’t believe me. They said there were hundreds of SHOs running their tune with no problems. I tried to get a video of it but the bouncing on the tach is too quick to capture on the phone, probably because of frame rate. It’s definitely bouncing near redline though. The car shudders in addition to the bouncing tach needle. It does not do this stock so I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the car. It doesn’t do this every time, but it’s more than an intermittent issue.

Anybody have any ideas?

 

[76FoMoCo]

turn off the tcs. then see if you can get it to do it.

 

[Johnbigdog]

Is the car pulling when it bounces of the limiter, or does the car just drive along with no acceleration?

 

[tech10002]

Is the car pulling when it bounces of the limiter, or does the car just drive along with no acceleration?

It accelerates until it starts bouncing off the limiter. Then it doesn’t accelerate anymore until you back off and it shifts. Afterwards you can accelerate smoothly until it does it again. It’s really disconcerting when it does this. I really hope there’s a solution because it’s a dealbreaker for me. I’d rather drive stock and not have it do oddball stuff like this.

I haven’t tried disabling the traction control, but I really don’t want to drive all the time with the traction control off just so it will shift. Do all you tuned guys drive with the TC disabled all the time? It’s not like I was racing anybody or doing max performance track runs. I was just trying to get around a large number of trucks on the interstate before I ran out of room.

 

[StealBlueSho]

It accelerates until it starts bouncing off the limiter. Then it doesn’t accelerate anymore until you back off and it shifts. Afterwards you can accelerate smoothly until it does it again. It’s really disconcerting when it does this. I really hope there’s a solution because it’s a dealbreaker for me. I’d rather drive stock and not have it do oddball stuff like this.

I haven’t tried disabling the traction control, but I really don’t want to drive all the time with the traction control off just so it will shift. Do all you tuned guys drive with the TC disabled all the time? It’s not like I was racing anybody or doing max performance track runs. I was just trying to get around a large number of trucks on the interstate before I ran out of room.

I have not had this issue with any of my LMS tunes, but I have heard of a few people on FB who have.

I rarely disable traction control... only at the track or when I’m at a res light and someone is eyeballing me...


Only time I have had the car bounce off the rev limiter was when I purposely pushing the rear end around a turn and traction control said NOPE.

I would ask for your issue to be escalated, it shouldn’t be hard for them to move the shift points down a hair to stop it from missing the shifts.


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[ridered74]

You are probably talking to the wrong person. Call them on the phone.

I went thru the same thing earlier this year. First guy I dealt with thru email acted like I was the first person to ever have the problem, even tho I knew from the forums/facebook that others had the same issue. After a month or so they sent me two new tunes with hard and soft shifts. That seemed to clear up my issues at the time, but the weather also got warm at about the same time. I ran another vendor's tune all summer, then put the LMS tune back on this fall. It seems that the issue is back, I just don't WOT it any more.

 

[OmaHahn]

Welcome to the club (unfortunately)!!!! Search this Forum, there's plenty of us with the same issue! It happens to me more often that not! Especially if I go around a corner and floor it, it acts like it misses the shift and goes into Neutral, then I see a bunch of smoke billow out the exhaust from revving to 8 or 9k! It also does this about 60% of the time in just a straight line, flooring it from a stop! Mine is always the 2-3 shift that misses, so mad! I have the PP option and I always turn off TCS, like a habit now. I've also emailed LMS and I don't get much help either other than told to overfill the tranny, which helps a little but does not eliminate the problem. I started a thread called LMS vs Gearhead because I just bought a "canned tune," from GH. I'm going to load their tune and take it to the dyno and compare the results vs my LMS V11 93 tune AND to see if my shifting issues go away. Watch that thread for updates. Good luck to you brother!

 

[SHOdded]

There IS a direct clutch thing (SSM), not sure this is at all related, but I had reposted from either 6500rpm's or johnbigdog's original post. Might be a sticking solenoid or a valve body issue. Really would have to monitor the trans closely to determine if there is indeed a problem with it or it is a result of something going on with the engine, or both.

 

[StealBlueSho]

Here is an idea, if there are enough people with the issue, then maybe someone should take the initiative to get a group email together and send it off to LMS with everyone on it?

I can sympathize with both sides. LMS tunes thousands of Ecoboosts... a lot of those are the 3.5 transverse platform. They use a combination of their in-house cars along with knowledge gained from the ones coming into the shop. If they don’t see the issue there, it’s upto feed back from the community to address the issue.

Tuners get hammered with one off issues all the time, unfortunately these are not high end cars and there is greater level of tolerance on these cars... what works for 90% leaves the other 10% scratching their head.

LMS in past has addressed shifting issues..particularly on the v11 after its first release... they made some changes to address it. So it’s not like they are unwilling to help.

If there are enough people with the issue, then like I said, get a group email or a group post in their section going. That might help move things along faster.


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[OmaHahn]

Here is an idea, if there are enough people with the issue, then maybe someone should take the initiative to get a group email together and send it off to LMS with everyone on it?

I can sympathize with both sides. LMS tunes thousands of Ecoboosts... a lot of those are the 3.5 transverse platform. They use a combination of their in-house cars along with knowledge gained from the ones coming into the shop. If they don’t see the issue their, it’s upto feed back from the community to address the issue.

Tuners get hammered with one off issues all the time, unfortunately these are not high end cars and there is greater level of tolerance on these cars... what works for 90% leaves the other 10% scratching their head.

LMS in past has addressed shifting issues..particularly on the v11 after its first release... they made some changes to address it. So it’s not like they are unwilling to help.

If there are enough people with the issue, then like I said, get a group email or a group post in their section going. That might help move things along faster.


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I like your idea however, LMS is not that big of a shop and you would think that since Anthony and Chris are the main ones that respond to emails and phones - wouldn't they be like "gees, I'm getting enough email/phone complaints regarding shifting issues in the SHO...." maybe we should look into this?? Sorry, but my money and loyalty is going to the shop that is proactive and not to just ignore something. I've reached out several times with no resolve!
Don't get me wrong, I've been mostly satisfied with LMS, I will never bad-mouth them, and I'll even recommend them. But I hope my new GH tune coming will show more gains on the dyno and the shifting issues go away because I'm tired of dealing with this.

 

[SHOdded]

Things should just WORK, right? Yeah, can be extremely frustrating sometimes. Keeping a cool head though, while doing what ya gotta do, is still the best way to get things done. Sure hope the upcoming tune from Gearhead gives you the resolution you are looking for.

 

[StealBlueSho]

I like your idea however, LMS is not that big of a shop and you would think that since Anthony and Chris are the main ones that respond to emails and phones - wouldn't they be like "gees, I'm getting enough email/phone complaints regarding shifting issues in the SHO...." maybe we should look into this?? Sorry, but my money and loyalty is going to the shop that is proactive and not to just ignore something. I've reached out several times with no resolve!
Don't get me wrong, I've been mostly satisfied with LMS, I will never bad-mouth them, and I'll even recommend them. But I hope my new GH tune coming will show more gains on the dyno and the shifting issues go away because I'm tired of dealing with this.

Understood, I was just thinking of away people can get something addressed faster.

Matt is very much against over revving the motor and believes the ideal shift points to be around 6k or just under depending on the gear... I will say his shifting has never missed a gear.

That being said, he just updated his tunes to move away from load based shifting so it’s a very different feel. Some may like it... some may not.


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[OmaHahn]

Understood, I was just thinking of away people can get something addressed faster.

Matt is very much against over revving the motor and believes the ideal shift points to be around 6k or just under depending on the gear... I will say his shifting has never missed a gear.

That being said, he just updated his tunes to move away from load based shifting so it’s a very different feel. Some may like it... some may not.


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Anywhere I can read or understand more about this "load based shifting?"

 

[StealBlueSho]

Anywhere I can read or understand more about this "load based shifting?"

A really good technical article. Just do some searching for adaptive gearing etc...



https://www.hindawi.com/journals/mpe/2015/614989/




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[RonPorter]

Seems like it would help the most if someone with the issue is within driving distance of LMS, as it appears that they haven't seen the issue in their fleet. Hard to diagnose from afar.

 

[tech10002]

So I called today after I didn’t hear back by email. The guy I talked to at least acknowledged the issue and said the cold temps and dense air might be to blame. He said something to the effect of it might be running out of fuel before the shift point and it’s dialing timing back. They’re going to try to lower the shift points 300-400 RPM. Apparently the v11 shift points are closer to 6700 RPM, so I must not be bouncing off the limiter. It just felt like rev limiter behavior to me. I did try using the paddle shifter at 6200 and it shifted fine. It just won’t shift on its own when it’s floored. I also drove with the traction control off all day today and it didn’t make any difference.

We will see what happens when they update. I really hope they get the tunes done soon and it fixes this. I’m really getting tired of my car shifting like crap. I spent the extra money and went with LMS because they were supposed to be the best.

 

[76FoMoCo]

please keep us posted. I too had this for 3 miss shifts and LMS was quick to update my file but never had to use it... wonder how much the adaptive learning the trans program has to do with a fresh tune upload.

 

[SM105K]

So I called today after I didn’t hear back by email. The guy I talked to at least acknowledged the issue and said the cold temps and dense air might be to blame. He said something to the effect of it might be running out of fuel before the shift point and it’s dialing timing back. They’re going to try to lower the shift points 300-400 RPM. Apparently the v11 shift points are closer to 6700 RPM, so I must not be bouncing off the limiter. It just felt like rev limiter behavior to me. I did try using the paddle shifter at 6200 and it shifted fine. It just won’t shift on its own when it’s floored. I also drove with the traction control off all day today and it didn’t make any difference.

We will see what happens when they update. I really hope they get the tunes done soon and it fixes this. I’m really getting tired of my car shifting like crap. I spent the extra money and went with LMS because they were supposed to be the best.

Wow, I did realize that LMS was spinning the motors to 6700 rpm. Mine AJPTurbo tune commands shifts at 6000 rpm....most I have seen is 6150 rpm.....

 

[StealBlueSho]

Wow, I did realize that LMS was spinning the motors to 6700 rpm. Mine AJPTurbo tune commands shifts at 6000 rpm....most I have seen is 6150 rpm.....

Depends on the gear... first according to my many datalogs is around 6500rpms... second is around 6400 rpms and third is around 6300rpms..

But in short.. they rev it out further than any tuner.


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[SM105K]

Depends on the gear... first according to my many datalogs is around 6500rpms... second is around 6400 rpms and third is around 6300rpms..

But in short.. they rev it out further than any tuner.


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Interesting, thanks for sharing that SBS. "Now you Know"