Hp/tq gains with 3.0 intake cams on a 3.2??

[broke1]

Cars is a 95 ATX in good running condition,soon to have all up to date maintenance .Mods will be:

Ported intake/runners/tanks
Cold air kit(I know)
80mm Lincoln maf
Dynomax exhaust w/ gutted cats(mine has seen better days and cats/mufflers have broken up on the inside)
Underdrive pulley(to slow acc speed down)
Factory tb bored to 69mm tb(its cheap,under $100)
BBB's
Custom dyno tuning via SCT(have a friend with a dyno who is an expert SCT tuner)
Hi flow fuel pump(most likely Denso,Walbro=pos that vendors should feel ashamed to sell)

Susp mods:
Home made Full length subframe connectors
Rear strut tower bar off a fwd GM
Poly sway bar bushings and end links
Moog sway bar ends

Brakes
Cross drilled and slotted rotors all around with EBC pads
Good brake fluid


Are the 3.0 intake cams a good budget upgrade?? I have a SHO in my local pull a part I've pulled the intake/tb/valve covers off for porting/powder coating. The engine is very clean on the inside and cam lobes look great. I'm planning on puting the cams in while it's all apart for upper/lower 60k.

Good upgrade or no?? If yes,what kind of hp/tq gains would I be looking at?? Better ??? Would be what gains have 3.2 MTX cars seen swapping to 3.0 intake cams??

I know the auto will eventually need built and I'm prepared for that......car only has 80k 1 owner miles and has been well cared for.....

Anyone here ever dyno'd tracked a 3.2 after installing 3.0 intake cams?? They only want $30 for them and I know they have more duration/lift......

Any input is greatly appreciated!!!!

 

[LOUDSHO92]

I know one person did it and it was worth only a few horse power basically it came down to dyno error. If you are spending the time for it, performance cams are the way to go.

 

[Irish Pride]

3.0 cams in a 3.2 is a nice upgrade "if" said 3.2 is going into an MTX car. 3.0 cams in a 3.2 that is still in an ATX will be a downgrade. The 3.2 cams are made to give lower end torque to help out with the slush box auto trans. You will get worse performance by swapping in the 3.0 cams and will very rarely get to feel the upper powerband that they provide because the trans will shift too soon. Until you do an MTX swap, stick with the cams in the motor now.

 

[broke1]

Thanks for the quick reply!!!

If it's only worth 5hp/5tq at the wheels,it'd be worth it....without nitrous or forced induction,seems u gotta work for every hp!!! Yamaha really did there homework building this engine!!!

Anything over 5hp/5tq to the wheels would be icing on the cake.

Colt cams does regrinds for Cummins camshafts(a **** of a lot harder cam and just as many lobes and they don't charge close to the prices I see for sho vendors charging for a regrind. Even a small market doesn't deserve a 400-500% markup. Double your money,I'm ok with that(even tho u aren't even touching the product) but making $500 on a $100 job is greed.If I could get a regrind done in the $250-$350 range(which again,I think that's a fair number,$75 a camshaft)I'd do it. But it's not that cheap....plus all the hp/tq loses down low and big cams making the car hard to drive.....not that I'm knocking shonut 1 bit bcause he's had the balls to fill a market that no1 else had the interest too!!! So my hats off to them there....

I'll take the stockers for drive ability and cost even if it is only a 5hp/5tq gain to the wheels. Every lit bit helps!!!lol

I'm just trying to max the max power with what Yamaha/ford gave us to work with without spending several thousands of $$$$'s. After that,if I need more power,I'll spray it with a 50-75 dry shot. But again,I wanna maximize what the factory gave us without pulling the heads.

 

[broke1]

Never gonna do a MTX swap. Several reasons for that:

Fastest SHO is/was an automatic!

I'm getting old(lol)!!

A good auto will ALWAYS be faster when drag racing!!

Who would think an ATX SHO would be fast??

It's more enjoyable for me to drive an auto

Plus I've read about the weakness of the SHO 5 SPD and I'm not spending big $$$ on a HD gear set to get it to live.


I figure with the e4od upgrades and ALL the lubrication and shift improvement upgrades offered by Superior,along with a custom built deep pan with a good filter setup,the AXODE can be built to hold a 210-215hp at the wheels SHO v6 with a 50-75 shot on the occasional drag strip trip or race in Mexico against some ricer Honand live a LONG life. Also the biggest trans cooler that can fit!!! Somthing like a 10" high,1" think,and 18" wide,I'm talking somthing bigger than a B&M with a 8"-10" fan to fit

 

[93markVIII]

A good auto will ALWAYS be faster when drag racing!!

the SHO atx is not a "good" auto however.
and the money required to get it to a "decent" level is simply excessive.

the mtx however, is good enough, with many boosted SHOs proven to be plenty reliable.


also, what "fastest" SHO are you talking about?

 

[rubydist]

the stock 3.0 is 220 hp and 200 lb-ft at the flywheel.

the 3.2 with 3.0 intake cams is 235 hp and 213 lb-ft at the flywheel.

IrishPride is correct - for the atx car with stock trans shift points, the 3.0 cams will appear to be a downgrade because the torque curve is shifted to higher rpms and the torque converter will start to move the car when the torque is lower than it was with stock cams. unless you put in a higher stall converter (that will handle the rpms) and change the shift points upward, the car will perform less well, not better, with the 3.0 cams.

 

[broke1]

So it's a 15hp/13tq gain at the flywheel??? Sounds like a $30 we'll spent to me......

Shift points will be upped with the tune along with turning up the line pressure.

When I get the trans "built",I'll prob put in a small stall conv.

Regardless,if it gains hp/tq,sounds like a good budget upgrade.....

 

[broke1]

And the fastest SHO I'm talking about is the fastest SHO....do a search. Automatic will always be faster in a drag race.

 

[zak]

So it's a 15hp/13tq gain at the flywheel??? Sounds like a $30 we'll spent to me......

..

That increase includes both the cams and the ~7% increase in displacement

 

[boat]

What rubydist and Irish are saying is that the 3.2 in an MTX 5 speed sho is where you'll see those gains not in the automatic. If keeping it automatic and you want gains with cams, get performance cams. Otherwise going with the 3.0 cams in an ATX, you'll lose power.

 

[jayro]

If you like the auto, then keep it because you want to. And yes, a good modern auto will (with all things being equal) be faster in a 1/4 mile drag race. It all depends on how you classify a car to be "Fast".

I chose a MTX for the main reason that I enjoy the driver interaction of shifting gears during performance driving and I prefer a road coarse or AutoX to the drag strip.

As far as durability, you don't need a HD gear set unless you are really upping the power. I believe the accepted figure is about 300 ft/lbs is where issues start occurring. The other weak part is the open diff which can be welded or replaced.

You may want to research the power bands and shift points again prior to doing the MTX cam swap. It has a good possibility of making your car slower.

 

[AREA 91]

I have done the MTX cams in an ATX car. Not worth it unless you have other mods to go along with it.

Last time I checked, the quickest 1/4 mile pass was an MTX car............owned by me! :wave:

 

[intimdatr]

And the fastest SHO I'm talking about is the fastest SHO....do a search. Automatic will always be faster in a drag race.

Uh. Last i knew the flat out fastest was Brain in his nitrous car by close to half of a second?

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=118251

Also you can look and see that one person on that list already has installed MTX cams into his ATX car and you can see the almost full second of pace of the other ATXs that are listed.


That being said, to build the Trans told hold half the power your looking at to be taking advantage of an auto is likely going to be near 5 grand to do properly. There are no 'kits' out there for the for the SHO atx. Everything will have to be done basically custom and even then, its a hit or miss of the trans will hold up. If I remember correctly somedude101s trans didn't live very long after he made that 12.*** run.

 

[sperold]

You need your best torque and horsepower in the RPM range that you are using. Not near 7000 RPM, as you do not live there.

For your Saturday Night Special that you are preparing, leaving the automatic is perfectly sane, but of course it will be expensive (maybe $3000.00) to build to your specs, just know that going in.

Just know that your induction system is almost optimized as it now stands. And that includes your intake cam lobe in your 3.2.

Opening up your exhaust is the best road to future increases. With the manual cars, you can get an equal length Y-pipe, but I do not know if that is possible with the automatic (over the counter). And a true dual exhaust system is a great path to allow future increases, but it is difficult in the SHOs due to routing (it is now a 2-1-2 exhaust). If you want to approach 300 hp, the exhaust has to be dealt with.

You can pour a lot of money into coaxing more fuel and air into your 6 cylinders, or you can bypass that route and go straight to supercharging / turbocharging and ram more fuel and air into your 6 cylinders. The second way is easier and cheaper.

 

[93markVIII]

[email protected] MTX is faster than [email protected] ATX.
also the highest mph is 122.00 with an MTX.


so maybe you should do a search?

 

[broke1]

Somedude101 was an auto and was the fastest sho for many years.

I've got a good ahop(they can build the **** out of gn 200r4 to handle power and that's not a trans just any1 can build) they want 1700 to build a unit with good clutches/steels/band/electronics,and r&r it)and that's with new conv,which I can add some stall too at the same time) all the superior mods(complete best shift kit thy offer w/ **** enhancements,e4od od planet,and line pressure adjusted in the tune(about $350 in parts),I'll have a unit a bit stronger than FPS's $2500 job. Which will be fine for my 210-215whp beast.And I'll have around $2k in it including them pulling and reinstalling the unit. Plus a 12month/12k mile warranty.

Are there any threads where aome1 has done the 3.0 intake cam swap on an ATX and dyno'd it? If not,I'm gonna do it. Bigger cam and bigger displacement should make the larger cam act smaller....

I've tried to lay out my mods(which from all the reading they seem the beat bang for the buck) except cams and that's bcause no1 has done it. And for $30,it's gotta be 1 of the cheapest hp/tq this motor can get.


Not trying to reinvent the wheel or argue,I respect what some I you have done immensely. If I had spent the $$$ that some have,I'd have done it way differently and wouldn't be to happy with 450whp(again,not knocking)

I some can't show me proof it's a loss in hp/tq on an auto,it's a myth. Even 3.2 MTX with 3.0 cams gaining power says an auto would gain power too.

I want a car I can maximize what Ford made and do all maintenance,and a few performance mods(nothing exotic or expensive). Then the car will be ready to go another 100k easy.

I've decided I'm gonna do the work myself to save $$$ and so I can fix it correctly where it'll go the next 100k as trouble free as can be!!!

 

[broke1]

I have done the MTX cams in an ATX car. Not worth it unless you have other mods to go along with it.

wave:

Did you see my planned engine mods above??

Do u think those mods are Enuff to make a difference with 3.0 cams in a 3.2 ATX?? Got any dyno sheets? Got any dyno sheets to compare 1 cam to the other in a 3.2 ATX?? How much better will it show on a small shot(50-75) vs the stock 3.2 intake cam?

I just figure it's so cheap and it all gonna be apart anyways.....so I'm only adding an hour or 2 tops.....and all the new parts are bought anyways....

 

[rubydist]

You need your best torque and horsepower in the RPM range that you are using. Not near 7000 RPM, as you do not live there.

^^ This is the point that you may not be fully comprehending, broke1.

Of course, 3.0 intake cams in a atx car will result in more horsepower. That does NOT mean it will be a faster or quicker car. What you care about is the area under the torque curve in the rpm range that you actually drive the car.

When you put 3.0 cams in a 3.2, you drop the torque curve below roughly 2500-3000 rpm. That drop in torque in that rpm range means that you need more throttle to get the same response for most driving. That translates to a feeling that the car is slower (because it is) and a reduction in gas mileage.

I had a 3.2 mtx that I drove for a while and then put 3.0 intake cams in it. If I got on it (above 3000 rpm), it was faster. For regular driving, it was doggier and gas mileage went down (because my daily driving kept rpms in the 2-4k range 90% of the time).

It depends on what you plan to do with the car. If you want an atx race car, then the cams will help you. If you want a quick daily driver, then save the time.

 

[LOUDSHO92]

Colt cams does regrinds for Cummins camshafts(a **** of a lot harder cam and just as many lobes and they don't charge close to the prices I see for sho vendors charging for a regrind. Even a small market doesn't deserve a 400-500% markup. Double your money,I'm ok with that(even tho u aren't even touching the product) but making $500 on a $100 job is greed.If I could get a regrind done in the $250-$350 range(which again,I think that's a fair number,$75 a camshaft)I'd do it. But it's not that cheap....plus all the hp/tq loses down low and big cams making the car hard to drive.....not that I'm knocking shonut 1 bit bcause he's had the balls to fill a market that no1 else had the interest too!!! So my hats off to them there....

You forget about lash caps which are extra cost and need to be modified to fit correctly so it is just not cams only.

Also the tri flo cams do not have the low down power issues.