What does your oil change cost?

[32MTX]

You might want to read up on Royal Purple. In the past, tests on BITOG showed it sheared quickly (as well as Mobil1).

err... the Mobil 1 is one of the longest lasting oils, especially if you pick the right variety..... It also has one of the longest warranties of any of the synthetic oils out there........

can't go wrong with M1 EP line, 10w30HM, 0w-40, 15w-50,(actually any M1 product that starts off with 0w) or Pennzoil Ultra oils for long drains.......

just keeping the facts straight......


also interesting picture of that sludged up SHO engine, never seen one that bad before, I was almost under the impression the v6's don't sludge up that bad......

 

[SHOrod]

I've read about Blackstone Labs for UOA on a couple other forums. They seem to be well respected and provide good detail and recommendations as part of their analysis reports. They offer their services via mail and the cost seems very reasonable, especially if the analysis determines the oil change interval can be extended or should be more frequent to preserve engine life. Either way, it will save money in the long run. I've never used it, but my recall is a standard UOA runs around $25.

-Rod

 

[Eric VerValin]

Yep... $25.. they look like this..



I forgot all about them... My buddy is a diesel mechanic and I noticed a little sample bottle sitting around, and all that clicked when I was reading this thread.. I just changed my oil or I would be collecting a sample for them now.. lol

 

[dramsey]

Consumer Reports did an interesting study (1996 I think) where they tested a fleet of New York taxicabs: some received 3,000 mile oil changes and others 7,500 mile oil changes. After 100,000 miles they tore down the engines and found no differences in the internal wear.

As a hobby I write reviews of computer equipment for a review website. One thing that's been hammered into me is that empiricism reigns: if an AMD fanboy claims the new Radeon 6970 video card outperforms an NVIDIA GTX570, what you do is test them: run gaming benchmarks against each and graph the results. Results are what matter.

And nobody anywhere has ever demonstrated that regular 3,000 mile oil changes have any benefit at all (for modern passenger vehicles driven under normal conditions. But the NYC taxis were certainly under what most of use would consider "severe service", and 3K interval oil changes didn't help there...).

Granted, they won't hurt anything, but if you really love your car, you should concentrate your service efforts on something that will actually make a difference. Check your belts and hoses. Change your radiator coolant when recommended (many years ago, I helped a friend change a rusted-out heater core. Never again!) Be obsessive about keeping your expensive Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires at their recommended pressures. Wipe down the leather and vinyl areas of your interior before they get too dirty. Stuff like that.

 

[yamahaSHO]

err... the Mobil 1 is one of the longest lasting oils, especially if you pick the right variety..... It also has one of the longest warranties of any of the synthetic oils out there........

Err... The standard run of the mill M1 has shown to shear quickly and shows consistently higher iron content than any other oil in UOA's.

I can't say I'd ever think of an oil warranty worth anything. Just trying to prove failure was the fault of their oil is next to impossible. I spun a bearing with M1. I can't prove it was the fault of the oil, but I do remember it being of a watery-like consistency when I drained it.

The Subaru guys pretty much stay away from it. The common nature of these engines to burn oil and the quick-thinning of M1 don't work well.

Either way, the person considering should do their own research and make their own decision.

 

[dramsey]

Reprint of the cited Consumer Reports oil article here.

 

[RAYJAY]

That doesn't make any sense. The longer it takes a dealership technician to make a warranty repair, the more it costs Ford. What with the longer warranties these days, any manufacturer would want to make there vehicles as easy to service as possible.

As for the fluids...well, if the company that makes the vehicle says one thing, and the oil change place down the street says another, I'm gonna have to go with the company...

no it does not its called flatrate, been there done that got the tee shirt and its always in the manufacturer favor for warranty work, ford or other car manufacturers only pay a flat rate per repair.

the dealer have a labor guide they go off of. a example would be a water pump would be 3 hours to do if the tech gets it done in 2 hours he makes more money if it takes him 4 hours he makes less,

However the time alloted for warranty work form the factory is alway under what you need when i worked part time in a ford dealership, and there was a lot of work on a campaign for a problem, ford would start cutting the time alloted to get the job done, to save money,so as a tech you start cutting corners to get the job done on time,thats why a lot of techs hate warranty work,

so no it does Not cost ford any more money to do warranty work

and if you want to read about some of this try here

http://www.flatratetech.com/community/index.php?showforum=19

 

[darreli]

We have "Blackstone Labs" here in town. I haven't used them yet, but I was planning on it the next time I change my oil just to see what they say. Has anyone used them before or heard of them?

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

I just had Blackstone analyze my oil at my last change. I use Mobil 1 5w20 and change it at 3000 mi and use a K&N Filter. It did have a rather high iron content but everything else including the viscosity was great. Could go much longer between changes according to them but I will still probably change every 3000 miles. Not that big of an investment as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Eric VerValin]

Well Dramsey.... Im no chemical engineer.. but I do know that the service grade of oil has changed a LOT since 1996. I graduated in 96, and that seems like forever ago. The new SM oils are about twice as "slick" as the older SL grade.. and that only came out a few years ago.

I built my engine and car by hand.. I've read plenty of articles that say you can go past 3000-5000, and sometimes farther because chemically the oil holds up still. But if its getting dark, to me that tells me that there is a lot of other "stuff" floating around that isn't "oil". I like seeing that clear looking oil on my dipstick.. maybe its just me.

It would be nice to have some idea on how much tin and copper is borderline territory for rod bearings to be near the end of their life. Not sure what the material is on the cam lobes... chromium? All new stuff to me.

 

[mjhpadi]

Very interesting info here, I did go read the article from Consumer Reports, and two things struck me: first, the price per quart for oil in 1996 vs 2011, quite an increase. Second, Consumer Reports came to the same conclusion I suspected, there really isn't a big difference in an of the high quality engine oils and not much difference in wear when doing regular interval changes. However, this report is now 15 years old, I would love to see info on more current oils. I will say, I am considering changing from Mobil One to Castrol Edge for my oil, and am wondering if I should use a different filter then the Mobil One. Let me qualify this by saying I refuse to use K&N since I have already had an experience when they refused to honor their warranty on an air filter...that bad experience has really turned me off to K&N. In our Sable I use Purolator oil filters, but wonder if there is a better filter available.

 

[mjhpadi]

Well Dramsey.... Im no chemical engineer.. but I do know that the service grade of oil has changed a LOT since 1996. I graduated in 96, and that seems like forever ago. The new SM oils are about twice as "slick" as the older SL grade.. and that only came out a few years ago.

I built my engine and car by hand.. I've read plenty of articles that say you can go past 3000-5000, and sometimes farther because chemically the oil holds up still. But if its getting dark, to me that tells me that there is a lot of other "stuff" floating around that isn't "oil". I like seeing that clear looking oil on my dipstick.. maybe its just me.

It would be nice to have some idea on how much tin and copper is borderline territory for rod bearings to be near the end of their life. Not sure what the material is on the cam lobes... chromium? All new stuff to me.

Thanks, I agree with what you are saying. Back when I had to take a diesel mechanics class while in college, I had an in depth discussion with my professor concerning dino vs synt. oils. Now this was back in 1979 and synthetic oils were very new and they were bragging about extended change times. Back then my prof explained that the synt. oil was better at absorbing contaminants and thus the long life. That said, I'm sure that the new oils are much improved from then.

 

[SHOrod]

so no it does mot cost ford any more money to do warranty work

That's true for work that is performed, but I think the earlier point was any warranty work costs Ford more than if no warranty work needed to be performed. Ie: if they recommend a 3k oil change interval and replace 5 engines, that costs Ford less than if they recommend 7500 mile intervals and need to replace 25 engines under warranty. The cost to Ford to recommend 3k versus 7.5k oil change intervals in their owner's manual is the same, and Ford doesn't make money off the cost of oil and filters (although the dealership does). I'm not sure if the EPA offers incentives to recommend extended, yet reasonable, oil change intervals though. Bottom line, I don't think Ford would be recommending 7.5k oil change intervals if they didn't feel no appreciable damage was being done to friction surfaces due to the extended interval. Plus, if their cars consistently blow engines just outside the warranty period they are going to lose a lot of repeat customers, and I would hope their bean counters are taking that in to effect.

-Rod

 

[RAYJAY]

That's true for work that is performed, but I think the earlier point was any warranty work costs Ford more than if no warranty work needed to be performed. Ie: if they recommend a 3k oil change interval and replace 5 engines, that costs Ford less than if they recommend 7500 mile intervals and need to replace 25 engines under warranty. The cost to Ford to recommend 3k versus 7.5k oil change intervals in their owner's manual is the same, and Ford doesn't make money off the cost of oil and filters (although the dealership does). I'm not sure if the EPA offers incentives to recommend extended, yet reasonable, oil change intervals though. Bottom line, I don't think Ford would be recommending 7.5k oil change intervals if they didn't feel no appreciable damage was being done to friction surfaces due to the extended interval. Plus, if their cars consistently blow engines just outside the warranty period they are going to lose a lot of repeat customers, and I would hope their bean counters are taking that in to effect.

-Rod

Rod ask the V8 owners about this .........

 

[dramsey]

so no it does Not cost ford any more money to do warranty work

I know about flat rate servicing, but I think you might be looking at it the wrong way.

If service is more difficult, then Ford has to adjust their flat rate times to compensate. If it takes 2 hours to change a water pump in a 2009 Taurus, and 3 hours to do so in a 2010 Taurus, then Ford had better note this in their rates, or dealers will scream at them. Longer rate times means Ford pays the dealer more.

There are tradeoffs, of course. If Ford thinks the new water pump will have a longer service life than the old one, maybe a 50% increase in the time to service it is OK. But the point I'm trying to make is that I'm sure Ford (and any other manufacturer) spends a lot of time making the stuff that will need servicing during the warranty period as easy to service as possible...to do anything else would be crazy.

 

[dramsey]

and if you want to read about some of this try here

http://www.flatratetech.com/community/index.php?showforum=19

I did go look at that and found it interesting reading. See the part about one of the ways of being able to spot a scam is that they're recommending service the manufacturer doesn't call for, or more frequently than the manufacturer calls for? Like, say, regular 3K oil changes?

 

[RAYJAY]

I know about flat rate servicing, but I think you might be looking at it the wrong way.

If service is more difficult, then Ford has to adjust their flat rate times to compensate. If it takes 2 hours to change a water pump in a 2009 Taurus, and 3 hours to do so in a 2010 Taurus, then Ford had better note this in their rates, or dealers will scream at them. Longer rate times means Ford pays the dealer more.

There are tradeoffs, of course. If Ford thinks the new water pump will have a longer service life than the old one, maybe a 50% increase in the time to service it is OK. But the point I'm trying to make is that I'm sure Ford (and any other manufacturer) spends a lot of time making the stuff that will need servicing during the warranty period as easy to service as possible...to do anything else would be crazy.

thats the problem we have,
they don't adjust the time the right way they just cut the time allotted to you.They don't care that the job takes 3 hour to do there only paying for what ever hours SLTS states,
go to the web i listed and do some reading ,its not just ford its all of the auto manufacturers doing it.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Holy crap man, punctuation!

 

[RAYJAY]

Holy crap man, punctuation!

Sorry i was kinda on a rant ............

a subject very close to me .....................:angelnot:

 

[SHOrod]

Rod ask the V8 owners about this .........

Well, the camshaft issues were not due to a maintenance interval that they recommended, that was a design issue that as far as I know wasn't revisited after the three year run of engines. BTW, I owned a 1998 SHO V8 and never had an issue with the cam sprockets. The only issue I had with that car was coil packs, but fortunately they weren't difficult to replace so I just replaced them one at a time as they failed. Anyway, yeah, Ford didn't handle the issue as well as they could have (in the eyes of the owners at least) but at least they didn't continue to use the same design without at least making improvements. I think it's kind of like the cracked rear trim on an Explorer. Ask someone who has had a problem with it and "every Explorer on the road has this same crack." My Mountaineer does not, and I look at every Explorer/Mountaineer/Aviator that I see the rear of and maybe 1 out of every 20 is cracked.

-Rod

 

[2010sho]

Let me first say, I have little doubt that few engines would blow because of a 7500/10K mile oil change interval. In particular within 60K miles.

With that said I personally don't go over 4K on oil changes.

Also by Ford marketing 7500 mile oil change intervals, that helps them in the PR arena in a HUGE way. They can say that on average in 3 years of ownership you will only have to change the oil 4-5 times. That makes many customers happy.

IMHO there are as many reports and theories about oil and long term use. Even thou I rarely keep a car past 60K, I still think it is cheap insurance to never go over 5K on an oil change