Livernois Tune Owners

[bill murray]

If I can just throw in a few thoughts here.

As evidenced by many of the posters, and this would include myself, there are many of us who wish to "improve" the performance of our SHO vehicles or in some cases to "eliminate" characteristics they don't particularly like.

In my case, I absolutely hate the soft, hesitant shifts with ignition retard and perhaps fuel shutoff or however they do it nowadays.

Many like the sound of a CAI system as opposed to the stock air filter system and a few like the sound of a more aggressive exhaust system.

In and of themselves, none of these modifications, professionally done by knowledgable suppliers for computer mods, filter systems and exhausts, will under normal and even spirited driving conditions result in a failure that might lead to a situation where you end up in a huge fight with your dealer or FMC themselves over who is going to pay for a particular failure assuming the tune, CAI or exhaust system was properly installed.

Where any of us can run into problems is when we make these modifications for the express purpose of running the vehicle in a competitive environment and essentially beating the H### out of the car. Do that totally stock and you can probably get anything fixed on warranty. Doing it to compete with the above stated mods, you run a big risk.

I don't want to put a damper on anyone's posts here, but you should also be aware that FMC monitors this Forum, as they do all such Forums dealing with Ford products and that adds a bit to the risk for those of you who modify the car with the intent to compete in drag racing, track racing or whatever.
Try to be as anonymous as possible.

Having said all that, I picked this article off of Automotive News a few weeks ago and have been waiting for someone to post it. I wish that FMC would make available such a "Factory Tune" for our Gen4 SHO cars that would be acceptable to them as a factory mod that would still be covered under warranty.

Hope the link works, AN is a bit hinkey about subscriptions so you may not get the whole story.

Bill
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101111/OEM/101119973/1254

 

[Billm0066]

If I can just throw in a few thoughts here.

As evidenced by many of the posters, and this would include myself, there are many of us who wish to "improve" the performance of our SHO vehicles or in some cases to "eliminate" characteristics they don't particularly like.

In my case, I absolutely hate the soft, hesitant shifts with ignition retard and perhaps fuel shutoff or however they do it nowadays.

Many like the sound of a CAI system as opposed to the stock air filter system and a few like the sound of a more aggressive exhaust system.

In and of themselves, none of these modifications, professionally done by knowledgable suppliers for computer mods, filter systems and exhausts, will under normal and even spirited driving conditions result in a failure that might lead to a situation where you end up in a huge fight with your dealer or FMC themselves over who is going to pay for a particular failure assuming the tune, CAI or exhaust system was properly installed.

Where any of us can run into problems is when we make these modifications for the express purpose of running the vehicle in a competitive environment and essentially beating the H### out of the car. Do that totally stock and you can probably get anything fixed on warranty. Doing it to compete with the above stated mods, you run a big risk.

I don't want to put a damper on anyone's posts here, but you should also be aware that FMC monitors this Forum, as they do all such Forums dealing with Ford products and that adds a bit to the risk for those of you who modify the car with the intent to compete in drag racing, track racing or whatever.
Try to be as anonymous as possible.

Having said all that, I picked this article off of Automotive News a few weeks ago and have been waiting for someone to post it. I wish that FMC would make available such a "Factory Tune" for our Gen4 SHO cars that would be acceptable to them as a factory mod that would still be covered under warranty.

Hope the link works, AN is a bit hinkey about subscriptions so you may not get the whole story.

Bill
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101111/OEM/101119973/1254

Even factory products could still affect the warranty. It's really up to the dealer. Dodge sold staged upgrades for the Neon and Caliber and gave a lot of people trouble if they had any issues. Unless Ford put it in writing then I wouldnt count an oem tune to keep the factory warranty. Reliability is one of the reasons why I am holding off on a tune. I wouldnt mind a little more power from the car, but I also don't want to spend $10,000 on a new engine if something goes wrong. I trust Livernois in what they do, but this is a new drivetrain so I think certain issues could still pop up. If Ford released a tune for the SHO I would buy it in a heartbeat as long as they didn't flag my vin and killing the powertrain warranty on the car. Ford has access to more testing equipment so I would pick theirs over Livernois for that very reason. Even if it means less power. However next year as long as the feedback is still good for Livernois I will probably bite the bullet. I would like at least 15,000 miles on my car before I install a tune.

 

[mjhpadi]

Thanks Bill Murray and bpd1151, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you guys. I really think I am going to get the Livernois tune (more worried about downloading it from my computer to the tuner then anything), however, the warranty is an issue to concern. Since I've been around drag racing since the early 70's I know that if the companies found out that you had used a car in competition they could void the warranty even if the car was completely stock..again a reason for Mag,-Moss Act. So with my SHO being pretty low mileage and not being real familiar with the dealer I purchased it from, I will probably wait to do the tune and CAI, although I am chomping at the bit to start modding the SHO for improved performance.

 

[LMSRick]

I'm sorry I just now saw this thread. I'm out of the office in Orlando for the Performace Racing Industry trade show.

There are a lot of good points in this thread and I'd like to thank everyone for the kind words! Tuning is definitely "done at your own risk", however I can assure you that our stage 1-3 tunes have been tested in our shop cars (SHO and Ecoboost Flex) which are driven extremely hard and we've never had a single issue.

Darreli's car is the first SHO we tuned and he has been running the stage 3 and the stage 4 tune for quite some time now, also with no issues. Last week before we left, I decided to count all of the SHO's we've tuned and we've tuned 41 to date. Our tunes are dyno and track proven and developed on our in-house AWD chassis dyno.

I can say that our tuner (Dan Millen) has been tuning for years and will not tune anything on the edge. His tunes are safe, but do make great power. he tunes everything that comes through the door from small bolt-on's to his 2,500+ HP 6-second Mustang (seen below).

[YOUTUBE]RNxHvMMD5VY[/YOUTUBE]

Driving to get lunch

[YOUTUBE]19w-iZuPcEE[/YOUTUBE]

Our non-performance package SHO with the stage 2 tune and Corsa Catback ran low 14's stock and has been a best of 12.98 @ 105 mph with the stage 2 tune.

Here is a video of our car and Darreli's car at the track

[YOUTUBE]K34CRHtRwms[/YOUTUBE]

Thank you

Regards,

Rick LeBlanc
Livernois Motorsports

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Does anyone know how much info the computer stores? Because I know it doesnt have infinite memory, eventually it will have to overwrite itself. So how much info (hours or such) does it store? If we reflash and then drive for an hour will the evidence of the tune be gone?

I too would be interested in knowing how long the flash data stays in our EcoBoost computers. Isn't it like the black boxes on Airlines, where it is over-written either on a time sequence, or after so many re-starts? Or... is the mark that shows the couputer has been re-flashed, a permanent fixture? Does it also show how many times the computer has been re-flashed, and whether it was done by a Ford dealer?

As for Ford or Dealer denying warranty work, I can't believe that they would really want to jeopardize their reputations over something small, and most likely unrelated to after-market parts. After all, an owner who beats his stock unmodified vehicle is much more likely to have parts failures than a responsible individual who likes to personalize his vehicle... sound...stopping, etc. While all of you know I have tuned my Brick... I'm certainly not a car beater.... as at 14K have had no brake issues, and no warranty work other than a squeaky dash.

On the other hand, if it goes "BOOM" instead of "ZOOM", you to would want to research how it happened, if you were paying for it...

 

[bill murray]

If I can add a few more remarks here, and I am really not wanting to hijack the thread but am trying to observe on some of the comments made after the original posts.

First off, I feel that the Livernois organization seems to be quite on top of how to offer tunes on this relatively new motor.

The comments Rick is making are very much in line with what a lot of us experienced with the first year of the Gen II Lightning, same deal, totally new motor configuration and no real past history to go on.

In my case, I went with Mike Troyer and his Superchips solution, an AirRaid filter and Bassani exhaust on my '99 L. I waited until I could see what I thought was a well researched solution to the possibility of enhancing/fixing/ whatever a motor that had a lot more potential without going over the edge and causing possible warranty problems. I did the same thing with my Blackwood except for the exhaust.

I see Rick, AirRaid and a couple of exhaust suppliers applying the same cautious and well documented approach to enhancing the performance of the ECO motor. And........I am sure there are other tuners, filter suppliers etc. that are doing their homework as well.

I posted this long ago, but I feel very strongly that a good/solid relationship with your Dealer Service Manager can be key to feeling comfortable with modifying your new, and in the case of a SHO or a Brick, expensive vehicle.

I was extremely fortunate in my dealings with my Ford Dealer when I had the L and my Lincoln Dealer when I had the Blackwood. They knew exactly what I was going to do before I did it. In the event, neither vehicles ever had a failure that had anything to do with the mods I made so maybe I was lucky but I feel they would have supported me or even never even mentioned that I had mods if I experienced a failure that was not due to the changes I made to the vehicles.

Now, another question, and sorry for the overly long post.

My concern about modding my SHO has to do with the drivetrain which from what I have read may be the one potential weak point in the SHO/Brick variants. This was not an issue in my L nor my Blackwood as they had "Truck" trannies.

I now note that the same motor, more or less, will be offered in the 2011 F150. It is rated at 365 hp and 420 torque as opposed to our 365 hp and 350 torque. And........that is box stock. Is it the drivetrain difference that allows the truck package to offer so much more torque?????.

As I am on a roll here, just want to mention that I continue to marvel at the progress our manufacturers have made in engine design in the last 30 years or so in spite of our having to use relatively low octane, unleaded gas and all of the pollution controls imposed over that same period.

I sold last year a 1969 Chevrolet Bel Air ex State of Maine Police car with a 390 horse 427 motor. Weighed about the same as my SHO and I think I remember it was a 15 second 1/4 mile car and got about 10 MPG.

It totally amazes me that we can get 365 hp out of a SHO motor, about the same torque, plus minus 20 mpg average and all of this out of 213 cubic inches.

Progress ain't all that bad...........Eh

Bill

 

[mjhpadi]

Bill, I think you hit the nail on the head with the above post. I couldn't agree with you more about the relationship with your dealer and feeling comfortable with the mods. I was very comfortable when I tuned my F-150 (also went with Mike Toyer/Superchips-would have perfered a Lightning but I needed 4WD). However, when I purchased my SHO I went to a dealer that had one in stock. I am in the process of building that relationship with the Service Manager, but they still don't know me well enough to back me up...my old dealer would cover anything I needed but my family had bought Fords from them dating back to 1963...but they sold out to a monster dealership that sells everything. Again, I agree it truly is amazing at the performance that Ford and the other manufacturers are achieving today...my 69 Olds 4-4-2 with 400 ci Just barely ran in the 13's on the drag strip, and now stock v-6's are running mid to low 13's, and achieving mileage well over 20 mpg. Not bad.

 

[Fishrising]

Stage 2, 3 and 4 are now in my email inbox! Should be interesting to compare these against what I already have.

 

[way2evil]

I just put the stage 2 in and it seems whenever I need to downshift two gears I get a huge bang from my transmission. Anyone know what the problem is?

 

[RedCandySHO]

I would get in touch with Rick. They can get it sorted out for you.

 

[LMSRick]

I just put the stage 2 in and it seems whenever I need to downshift two gears I get a huge bang from my transmission. Anyone know what the problem is?

Anthony,

We've never heard of anyone having this issue. All of our tunes for these vehicles are identical in the trans calibration. Try the stock tune and see if it still does this. If not, I can have Dan create a new stage 2 file for you to try to see if it helps.

Thank you,

Rick

 

[blue thunder]

Check out gen4 maintenance and trouble shooting RE:throttle hesitation

 

[way2evil]

I just drove it on a 30 mile trip and think its more me than the car. What I was doing was pushing down about halfway so it would only drop one gear then pushing down even more for it to drop two gears. I think it wanted to shift down another gear while already shifting because of how fast I was using the throttle. Now I am just going down three quarters throttle and it seamleasly drops two grads and takes off. I'm going to do a more detailed write up on the tune because I think anyone that does not want to tune their car needs to know how great the tune really makes the car.

 

[LMSRick]

I just drove it on a 30 mile trip and think its more me than the car. What I was doing was pushing down about halfway so it would only drop one gear then pushing down even more for it to drop two gears. I think it wanted to shift down another gear while already shifting because of how fast I was using the throttle. Now I am just going down three quarters throttle and it seamleasly drops two grads and takes off. I'm going to do a more detailed write up on the tune because I think anyone that does not want to tune their car needs to know how great the tune really makes the car.

I'm glad to hear there wasn't an issue and appreciate a write-up. If you need any changes or think there is an issue, don't hesitate to contact me. We want to make sure you are 100% satisfied.

Thank you

Regards,

Rick LeBlanc
Livernois Motorsports

 

[way2evil]

To be quite honest I'm kind of scared of trying the stage 4. There's snow and ice on the ground here so its probably not a good idea.

 

[PhantomX]

I'm glad to hear there wasn't an issue and appreciate a write-up. If you need any changes or think there is an issue, don't hesitate to contact me. We want to make sure you are 100% satisfied.

Thank you

Regards,

Rick LeBlanc
Livernois Motorsports

I experience this every once in awhile as well Rick, it's usually under part throttle as you press down it seems to stay "stuck" in a higher gear and then all of sudden it realizes it was supposed to downshift and you get a real hard downshift. It's not very often. The same happens at low speeds I'll get a thunk every once in awhile.

My guess is throttle response as the it may not realize the actual throttle position or there may be some lag in throttle position then by the time the PCM realizes it your way down on the throttle so it thinks you wanna go fast when your really still lugging along, if that makes any sense...

Also would love to have the Stage 4 tune emailed to me if you would pretty please, as long as it's safe to drive without race gas (I run 93) if you think it's too aggressive for the street on a daily driver let me know (anyone else feel free to chime in who have S4). I don't beat the car by any means, every once in a while I get it on it, most times part throttle goes plenty fast enough to get you in trouble. But when I wanna play I want all hands on deck!

Also what do you guys think about Octane booster? Any good? wast of money? Heck I should probably start a new thread...

 

[Billm0066]

I experience this every once in awhile as well Rick, it's usually under part throttle as you press down it seems to stay "stuck" in a higher gear and then all of sudden it realizes it was supposed to downshift and you get a real hard downshift. It's not very often. The same happens at low speeds I'll get a thunk every once in awhile.

My guess is throttle response as the it may not realize the actual throttle position or there may be some lag in throttle position then by the time the PCM realizes it your way down on the throttle so it thinks you wanna go fast when your really still lugging along, if that makes any sense...

Also would love to have the Stage 4 tune emailed to me if you would pretty please, as long as it's safe to drive without race gas (I run 93) if you think it's too aggressive for the street on a daily driver let me know (anyone else feel free to chime in who have S4). I don't beat the car by any means, every once in a while I get it on it, most times part throttle goes plenty fast enough to get you in trouble. But when I wanna play I want all hands on deck!

Also what do you guys think about Octane booster? Any good? wast of money? Heck I should probably start a new thread...

I have no experience with octane booster in the SHO, but I used it in my neon srt-4 with high octane mode on stage 2. It was calibrated for 100 unleaded octane, but I could get it to hold with 93 and octane booster. In the SHO it's probably a big waste of money unless your tune was designed for more octane. I wouldn't trust it anyway unless the car could revert back to a different setting if it saw knock. I would get a tune for race gas and fill up with race gas instead.

 

[LMSRick]

Also would love to have the Stage 4 tune emailed to me if you would pretty please, as long as it's safe to drive without race gas (I run 93) if you think it's too aggressive for the street on a daily driver let me know (anyone else feel free to chime in who have S4). I don't beat the car by any means, every once in a while I get it on it, most times part throttle goes plenty fast enough to get you in trouble. But when I wanna play I want all hands on deck!

Also what do you guys think about Octane booster? Any good? wast of money? Heck I should probably start a new thread...

I can email it to you tomorrow. Send me a pm with your email address. Our tuner Dan says he would recommend mixing some race gas with pump gas and that it is a use at your own risk tune, but Darreli and several others are running it with 93 octane and no issues.

I don't think I'd use octane boost.

-Rick

 

[blue thunder]

Rick are you saying that in your opinion the stage4 is not as safe as the other stages or do you need more trial time with stage4?

 

[darreli]

I've been driving the Stage 4 for months on 93 octane without issue.