throttle steering further down the rabbit hole...

[SuperHO]

i'm going mad as a hatter trying to solve this. for about a month now, my steering has been weird. turns out i had a sloppy ball joint on the driver's side. k. now we come to today. replaced the control arm, only to have the symptoms get noticeably worse. symptoms being under throttle,the steering wheel jumps about 20* to the left or the car attempts a right turn. everything's tight. there's no play by hand. i put the car on jackstands and had someone watch while i played with the throttle and brakes, and there was noticeable toe in happeningon the driver's side. what the **** is going on?

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

If you just replaced a ball joint and control arm, you need an alignment.... duuuude :wave:

Should clear up the problem.

If not, you have some play somewhere.

Checked the tension strut rod connections?

How about the steering rack bolts and tie rods?

 

[Eric VerValin]

I'd check those strut rods as well... the ones I have on my car currently are pretty rusty, and even with new bushings I've got play in there that sounds pretty similiar. The only way I can get any movement from it... is when its on the ground and if I kick the tire at 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock... then I can see it bounce a bit... Other than that, same thing... can't tell its bad. Even with the nut on the strut rod bottomed out, that little bit of play in that bushing allows it to telescope a bit.

What bushings do you have in those LCA's of yours?

 

[kikkinasphalt]

cool torque steer


bad open diff?

 

[Racer X]

Strut rod bushings/ receiver cup deterioration.

 

[gmorrell]

Strut rod bushings/ receiver cup deterioration.

Yep, you live in the Rust Belt pal, I'd have a look at where the strut rods pass through the forward part of the subframe. These have been known to corrode and deteriorate, and even sometimes the spot welds securing the bushing cups can break loose in the absence of corrosion. This is one of those weird problems you won't see if the tires are off the ground because they're aren't any reaction loads going into the strut rods.

 

[SuperHO]

sounds plausible. i know there's poly bushings where the strut rods go through the subframe...is that significant at all? also...if there's physical damage done from being pickled, is there a way to fix it short of a new subframe?

 

[SHObill]

for the SF cup, the only way to fix it is to weld it or replace it with that Moog kit.
how did the SR look under the bushing at the CA? every one I have pulled is very rusty!

 

[SuperHO]

suprisingly clean. i didn't notice it looking crusty or anything. seemed pretty solid. so is there any major modification needed for the gen III swap? and where might i locate one of these moog kits you speak of?

 

[Eric VerValin]

how did the SR look under the bushing at the CA? every one I have pulled is very rusty!

Thats what I was talkin about... mine were pretty rusty/not there. And when I put my new LCA's in, it was fine... for about 1,000 miles.. now when I give it **** I'm all over the road... just waiting on a free day to get my new ones on, and get these poly's on again...

I only noticed what it was when I was driving downtown next to a black "panel van" and I could see my wheel move aft, then forward, after I let off the gas, then stepped back on it again.. Kinda spooky to watch it when your driving..


If it's around the cup, I remember a lot of older posts where some of them couldn't be seen unless the subframe was out of the car... just other random things to consider / think about...

 

[SuperHO]

so what should i be looking for when i rip the thing apart?

 

[pjtoledo]

slap a couple of thick washers behind the nut that sticks out front,,,,,ahem, let me re-phrase that: slap a couple of thick washers behind the retaining device at the front of the strut rod. if the cup is loose the extra washers should tighten it up enough to significantly change the symptoms. the kick test usually yields a click if the cups are loose. kick the front of the tire, so the tire moves to the rear. that allows some slack at the cup, then on the rebound it clicks as the cup seats against the subframe again.


Perry

 

[pjtoledo]

so what should i be looking for when i rip the thing apart?

check to see if the cup moves. the tell-tale brownish-red powder at the seam is a sign its been rattling around

 

[SuperHO]

i'll do the washer thing tomorrow as a temp fix until i can get the repair kits for both sides. happen to know offhand what size washer i should look for?

 

[SHObill]

tim, your best bet would be to go to a person/shop that has a welder. remove those big nuts, washers & frt bushings, pull back the SR & have the cups welded. Those Moog kits are expensive, like $75 each!

 

[SuperHO]

well, after getting the nut and bushing out of the way, the cup seems rather firmly attached with no signs of seperation. In fact, there appears to be a nice weld bead going around it, making me think someone welded it once already. The strut rod inside looks just fine, and neither of the bushings are mangled in any way. The rear bushing's the poly bushing, but the front one's rubber. However, it's been that way for as long as I've owned the car, and this issue hasn't been present. I'm still gonna try throwing some washers on there, but after that, I have no idea what to think. While i'm under there, i'm gonna check the passenger side, just for ***** and grins. I'm pretty well certain all the play's coming from the driver's side, as the passenger side tire's not wearing nearly as bad. But we shall see. I'll keep ya'll updated.

 

[SuperHO]

so in the process of fiddlin with the strut rod, i witnessed a shitton of play in the ball joini...not in the joint, but where it sticks up through the knuckle. it's almost as if the stud is too small for the hole. thoughts on that one?

 

[93rev2sev]

symptoms being under throttle,the steering wheel jumps about 20* to the left or the car attempts a right turn.

there was noticeable toe in happeningon the driver's side. what the **** is going on?

Your subframe's moving. When you had the vehicle on jack stands, where were the stands? Aft of the subframe or under it?

 

[Racer X]

so in the process of fiddlin with the strut rod, i witnessed a shitton of play in the ball joini...not in the joint, but where it sticks up through the knuckle. it's almost as if the stud is too small for the hole. thoughts on that one?

Is the ball joint fully inserted into the knuckle? Is the pinch bolt sufficiently torqued down?

What is it with you and ball joints, Tim?

 

[93rev2sev]

You know what...

I remember you talking about this a long time ago...like a year. Your spindle hole is wallered out.

You kneed a gnew nuckle