ax4n valve body questions

[wymjym]

I had my tranny rebuilt last year, it was not a good experience.
At any rate, I am certain that they installed the incorrect tcc solenoid (wrong ohm readings). I also have some very very hard shifts going from 2nd to third...most of the time. I have the car ripped apart and will be pulling the side cover off tomorrow. My question is, since I can replace the solenoids without yanking the valve body off I am inclined to just order the solenoid pack (five new pieces) and install them...button it back together. That is unless I might be able to actually see if any of the valve body parts are damaged by pulling it out. I don't really know what I would find and unless there would be some obvious gouging or broken piece I wouldn't know where to look or what to look for. So....if I pull the valve body will it be of any use to me? or should I do the solenoids and cross my fingers real tight?
thanks for any insight
wj

 

[Silvapain]

If the Ohm readings are off for the TCC solenoid, just replace it and button everything back up. If you disassemble the valve body and lose one of the check balls you're in for some trouble.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Avoid those solenoid pre-packs and just get the ones you need from Ford. The price difference is negligible, and Ford will usually be less if you get any kind of discount. Realistically, unless you're getting SS or EPC codes I wouldn't bother changing those out.

If you are certain they installed the wrong TCC solenoid, why not just bring it back and make them fix it? I would hope that you got at least a 12/12 warranty with the rebuild.

Inspecting a valve body is not realistically within the realm of something a DIY'er can do. A hard 2-3 can be a VB problem, or a number of other problems. The best alternative if you insist on DIY is just get a reman VB from a reputable supplier and swap it out. As long as you don't disassemble the VB itself, you can't lose anything and should be fine as long as you torque all the bolts properly. Also make sure the VB has the right separator plate and casting code before installing, the SHO uses the same VB as the SLO but requires different plates and every rebuilt VB I've ever gotten had the wrong plate.

 

[wymjym]

Avoid those solenoid pre-packs and just get the ones you need from Ford. The price difference is negligible, and Ford will usually be less if you get any kind of discount. Realistically, unless you're getting SS or EPC codes I wouldn't bother changing those out.

If you are certain they installed the wrong TCC solenoid, why not just bring it back and make them fix it? I would hope that you got at least a 12/12 warranty with the rebuild.

Inspecting a valve body is not realistically within the realm of something a DIY'er can do. A hard 2-3 can be a VB problem, or a number of other problems. The best alternative if you insist on DIY is just get a reman VB from a reputable supplier and swap it out. As long as you don't disassemble the VB itself, you can't lose anything and should be fine as long as you torque all the bolts properly. Also make sure the VB has the right separator plate and casting code before installing, the SHO uses the same VB as the SLO but requires different plates and every rebuilt VB I've ever gotten had the wrong plate.

Hey Chris,thanks for the info!
After three times back to the shop (not too local) the car comes back with more and more parts bent/broken/ or missing. After talking with the 'master mechanic' I have come to realize that he lies so much, he can't keep his stories straight. The owner of the shop agreed to pay the cost of the part(s).
so unless the car stops moving or starts slipping or just hand-gernades...I'll be the mechanic of choice.
I am certain that the tcc reads 14.7 ohms and the car/tranny are early 97, so I feel pretty certain that this is the incorrect solenoid.
There are no codes present.
I will replace just the solenoid and should that fail to help I'll plan on doing this again and getting a rebuilt valve body.
Is it reasonable to replace the #2 solenoid with hopes that it might be the cause or part of the harsh 2/3 shift?
The shifting gets more harsh the warmer the tranny fluid gets, I checked the temp sensor value when cold and it was at spec but never tried to check when warm.....given that it does shift harder when warm...does replacing this sensor seem to have any validity to helping my shifts?
and lastly.....the tranny shop told me that they did replace the VB (the last time around) with a rebuilt unit they sourced and that it came complete with all solenoids etc, which means that there is no telling what brand/manufacture is of the solenoids, sensors, valves, anything. Given this bit of information...should I still go for the OEM tcc solenoid? what is the problem with the 'off brand' solenoids?
thanks so much
wj

 

[hawkeye18]

Your solenoid is stoichiometric?

 

[wymjym]

Your solenoid is stoichiometric?

funny! I wish my engine could run stoichiometric without surging........
the solenoids respond to the pcm and the tcc is fed a pwm signal by the pcm. The temp sensor varies it resistance based on temp and the pcm digests that info (and a lot of other info) and makes adjustments to the entire vehicles operation.
wj

 

[SHOZ123]

.......Also make sure the VB has the right separator plate and casting code before installing, the SHO uses the same VB as the SLO but requires different plates and every rebuilt VB I've ever gotten had the wrong plate.

Any way to correctly identify the valve body and separator plate?

 

[wymjym]

I dunno!
they did pull the original and replaced it with a rebuilt unit. 100% certain of that.
I'll be pulling the side cover in a hour or so...can I confirm anything externally given that it is 'rebuilt' by some unknown supplier?
wj

 

[SHOZ123]

I've got a new valve body here that is suppose to be SHO unique.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Is it reasonable to replace the #2 solenoid with hopes that it might be the cause or part of the harsh 2/3 shift?
The shifting gets more harsh the warmer the tranny fluid gets, I checked the temp sensor value when cold and it was at spec but never tried to check when warm.....given that it does shift harder when warm...does replacing this sensor seem to have any validity to helping my shifts?
and lastly.....the tranny shop told me that they did replace the VB (the last time around) with a rebuilt unit they sourced and that it came complete with all solenoids etc, which means that there is no telling what brand/manufacture is of the solenoids, sensors, valves, anything. Given this bit of information...should I still go for the OEM tcc solenoid? what is the problem with the 'off brand' solenoids?
thanks so much
wj

No, it's not reasonable to replace SS#2 to correct a hard 2-3 when hot since
it is only open (energized) in 1st and 4th gears.

The fact that it happens more when the tranny is hot suggests a problem unrelated to the VB itself, possibly a piston or spring or a number of other things. Most VB issues should be repeatable regardless of temperature. Unfortunately, most transmission problems cannot be diagnosed over the intarweb.

Most rebuilt VB's include the OE Ford solenoids unless they failed during testing. In practice, the solenoids in the AX4N are probably the most reliable part of the tranny. I've only seen a couple of failures.

Again, the aftermarket Chinese solenoids are about the same price as Ford's solenoids (which are as I said, extremely reliable). Do you want to buy your coffee at Starbucks or Starbuxx if the price is the same?

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Any way to correctly identify the valve body and separator plate?

I've got a new valve body here that is suppose to be SHO unique.

There is no difference between the actual valve bodies between AX4N's that came with a SHO or SLO.

The difference is in the separator plates. For '96+'97s the plate should be stamped "15", and for '98+'99s "85". If the plate is stamped 00, 03, 05, 11, 13, 14, 84, 86, 87, 90 or has no stamp at all, it is not a SHO separator plate. Looking at the bottom of the valve body from the pump cover side, the number will be stamped into the metal section of the plate that is visible from this side of the VB.

For '96 and '97 models, the valve bodies will have an F4 casting and will have 2 bolts on the back holding the separator plate in place (commonly called "AX4N 2-bolt").

For '98 and '99 models, the valve bodies will have an F8 or XF1 casting and will have 3 bolts on the back holding the separator plate in place (commonly called "AX4N 3-bolt").

 

[SHOZ123]

Ha the one I have has a 05 stamped on the separator plate gasket. And has the three torx screws holding the separator plate on.

Funny as they seller went to a bit of an effort to insure that I had a correct VB. Stating that it was SHO specific and for a '97. Even wanted my VIN. bastiges

Part number on the VB is RFXF1P-7A092-BA, on the pump cover F4DP-7B325-AA, and the TCC is 14 ohms......

 

[wymjym]

There is no difference between the actual valve bodies between AX4N's that came with a SHO or SLO.

The difference is in the separator plates. For '96+'97s the plate should be stamped "15", and for '98+'99s "85". If the plate is stamped 00, 03, 05, 11, 13, 14, 84, 86, 87, 90 or has no stamp at all, it is not a SHO separator plate. Looking at the bottom of the valve body from the pump cover side, the number will be stamped into the metal section of the plate that is visible from this side of the VB.

For '96 and '97 models, the valve bodies will have an F4 casting and will have 2 bolts on the back holding the separator plate in place (commonly called "AX4N 2-bolt").

For '98 and '99 models, the valve bodies will have an F8 or XF1 casting and will have 3 bolts on the back holding the separator plate in place (commonly called "AX4N 3-bolt").

Thanks once more Chris.

Well I got things apart and sure enough, the incorrect tcc solenoid was installed.

I’m a little confused as to which number refers to the separator plate. Does this photo help?
Is it the 80?



these numbers on top?? mean what???





wj

 

[wymjym]

as a little update, I am lucky enough to have the correct separator plate (#15).
it was pretty hard to see but it is located where the red circle is



I did have the incorrect TCC solenoid installed and the correct one is on its way to me. The temp sensor also read out of scale by 15%, so I ordered a new one of those...hope it has some impact but I sort of doubt it.
I'll get it together next week and let folks know how it shifts.
thanks to all that helped me out
wj

 

[n8rsk8r]

I seriously hope it works for you man!

 

[SHOZ123]

So this specific SHO separator plate. Is it still available?

And what makes it SHO specific?

 

[SHOZ123]

F6DZ7Z490D PLT ASY - TRANS CON is the separator plate according to Torrie. ~$70.00

 

[Silvapain]

Paul, I can pull the separator plate out from my spare tranny and get a picture for you.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

So this specific SHO separator plate. Is it still available?

And what makes it SHO specific?

Different size holes. One of the SLO plates is very, very close for 98/99's, I think it's either the 00 or 05, I'll have to check my notes at the shop. For 96/97's I would need to compare them in person to see if any are close matches.

They are available aftermarket, I have the part numbers and prices at the shop too. If my head doesn't explode I'll try to bring it all home with me tomorrow. I know the 98/99 plates are discontinued from Ford and only available aftermarket.

 

[wymjym]

Results of the TCC solenoid replacement.

The quick overview:
Had tranny ‘rebuilt’ last summer, discussed at length the fact that my 1997 AX4N used the low impedance (<1.5 ohm) solenoid with the shop owner and shop foreman and shop ‘rebuild’ man. Took delivery…not good, they replaced the internal wiring harness and ‘solenoids’…not good, they replaced the TC….better, they replaced the valve body……not good, they insisted that all of the correct pieces were used……given that each time they were spending a lot of time with this problem I accepted that was the situation. In total frustration I measured the values via the socket on top of the tranny….not correct. I once more asked if they were certain the correct TCC solenoid was installed……the answer was an emphatic, YES!

I pulled the side cover off and the incorrect TCC solenoid was staring at me (blue socket instead of the correct white one). I obtained the correct unit and installed it.

The transmission shifts great, everything works fine…there is a slight harshness to the 2-3 shift but much, much less than before. If it had performed like this when first delivered to me, I would have been a happy camper.

To summarize, an incorrect TCC solenoid caused:
Harsh, erratic shifts
Inconsistent lock up
A pulsing in the front end (when the tcc was trying to lock up) that felt for all the world like a tire out of balance

Also worth noting, there were NEVER any codes thrown even though the incorrect tcc solenoid was installed.

wj