Wider is better...

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Mike Kopstain

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I have an interesting mod for some to try if you have some extra parts laying about. I took an 89' rear knuckle and combined it with a 91' rear vented rotor and 91' Caliper and bracket. The results are pretty cool. The hat on the 91' rotor is thicker than the hat on the 89' and sets each wheel out about 3/4 of an inch. Sure it's pricey if you don't have the parts laying around, but I had them from an old car and the difference is noticable.

That is all. I thought I would share that. :)
 

JaySHOguy

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But, on say a stock Gen 1, wouldn't that put the wheel too close to the fender lip? I know on my '89, the slicer with 225/55's is only about 1/4" or less away from the lip...
 

Mike Kopstain

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I have a 95'. :) It has 89' knuckles on the back though as the car originally had (gasp) drum brakes on the rear.

I didn't think about the clearance issues on the Gen I's. frown
 

PAracer

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On a similar note. Can I put rear vented rotors on my 93? I've got an 89 to part out and have the parts on hand. If it will fit, do I just need hub, rotor, caliper, and bracket?
 

SHODWN

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sure you can. The hub housing is the same on ALL years up to 99.

You need the caliper backing plate, the calper assembly and the rotor.
 

SHO92

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Mikeys_Taurus:
I have an interesting mod for some to try if you have some extra parts laying about. I took an 89' rear knuckle and combined it with a 91' rear vented rotor and 91' Caliper and bracket. The results are pretty cool. The hat on the 91' rotor is thicker than the hat on the 89' and sets each wheel out about 3/4 of an inch. Sure it's pricey if you don't have the parts laying around, but I had them from an old car and the difference is noticable.

That is all. I thought I would share that. :)
This isn't going to work if you have anything other than an 89 SHO or regular taurus without ABS. The 89 spindles don't have the hole for the ABS sensor or the screw for the bracket.

<small>[ March 18, 2003, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: SHO92 ]</small>
 

SHO92

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PAracer:
On a similar note. Can I put rear vented rotors on my 93? I've got an 89 to part out and have the parts on hand. If it will fit, do I just need hub, rotor, caliper, and bracket?
Isn't the size of the hole for the hub on the rotor bigger on 90-99 SHOs compared to the 89? I thought this was why 89 SHO rotors wouldn't work on the newer cars. Or maybe I am just confusing the issue that comes up when putting 96 rotors and the rears and needing the spacer ring for that.
 

pjtoledo

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3/4" ????? I'll have to dig into my parts stash to verify it, but I believe the difference is 3mm, each side. The vented hubs are 3mm narrower to match up with the vented disks hats being 3mm thicker. That keeps the wheel surface in the same place. It's a mute point though, the caliper brackets won't let you move the rotor that far.

Perry Toledo,Ohio
 

K-Dawg

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I'm not dissing your mod, but is wider really better? I seem to recall reading somewhere (not sure where) that on a front wheel drive car you want the rear track to be narrower than the front. I believe it affects the handling somehow.
 

noSHO

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K-Dawg:
I'm not dissing your mod, but is wider really better? I seem to recall reading somewhere (not sure where) that on a front wheel drive car you want the rear track to be narrower than the front. I believe it affects the handling somehow.
That is true, it helps reduce understeer. However, if we can find a way to space out the wheels a little more, we can fit a wider wheel without rubbing hte strut tube. There are a number of ways to reduce understeer and improve handling. The only way to get a wider wheel is to, well, get a wider wheel.
 

Mike Kopstain

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Perry,

The rear end of my car is Frankenstein. I will have to pull part numbers off of everything to verify what I have. The wheels sit 3/4 farther out on each side.

Dave, the car has a fair amount of oversteer as it is. I don't mind trading some oversteer for a flatter car in the turns.
 

pjtoledo

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Mikeys_Taurus:
Perry,

The rear end of my car is Frankenstein. I will have to pull part numbers off of everything to verify what I have. The wheels sit 3/4 farther out on each side. ,,,,,,,
I'm not sure how you accomplished that. I found my set of 89 rear spindles and hubs. Placed the hub face down across the vice, so I could measure from the hub/disk surface. The distance from the hub face to the control arm bolt holes between the 89,92 and 93 hubs/spindles only varies about 2 to 3 mm. The variances follow the thickness of the intended disk hat. 89 and 93 have thick hats, thus narrower hubs. The 92 has a thin hat section, and a wider hub,,by 3 mm. All three place the wheel at exactly the same place. The brackets for the 92 and 89 appear identical, I'm still looking for the 89 backing plates to compare them with a 92. Get those cams checked yet? I have a set of 89 heads downstairs that have un-molested cams and chains in them. Basically, if the cams are in correctly, with the engine at TDC, the letters KOA all point up away from the head. The flat alignment faces at the rear of the cams should point straight up, perpendicular to the head surface. Is it possible to put the cam sensor vane on wrong?

Perry Toledo,Ohio
 

SHODWN

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89-92 are the same.

would you like to see a parts pic for this upgrade?

if its even an upgrade, but it sure looks better...
 

pjtoledo

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SHODWN:
89-92 are the same.

would you like to see a parts pic for this upgrade?

if its even an upgrade, but it sure looks better...
89's are different in the rear, I'll get back to you with the specs.

Perry Toledo,ohio

Ok, here's the scoop. Rear calipers and brackets are identical 89 thru 92. Rotors, hubs, and mounting plates are different. For 89 the rotor hat height is 3mm less than the 92. At the same time, the 89 rotor hat surface is 3mm thicker than a 92. The mounting plate on an 89 is flush on the inside where the caliper bracket bolts to it. For 92 the mounting plate is recessed 3mm where the caliper bracket bolts up. The 3mm offset on the mounting plate exactly corresponds with the 3mm increase in rotor hat height on a 92 rotor. That places the 89 calipers 3mm closer to the slicers, or the 92 calipers 3mm farther from the slicers. Depends on which way you look at it. In both cases the mounting surface of the slicer is the same distance from the control arms, so the wheel is in the same place in both wheel wells. By combining parts (92 rotor and mounting plate)you can push the wheel on an 89 in by 3mm, moving it 3mm closer to the strut. You cannot move the 89 wheel out by combining parts. A 92 is different, it already has 3mm wider hubs, but the rotor hat is 3mm thinner so that cancels out. You can take a 92, put 89 mounting plates on it,(that pushes the caliper out 3mm), then add 89 rotors(with the 3mm shorter hat) so everything matches up.That moves the caliper out 3mm. As a plus, the 89 rotor has a thicker hat surface,,you guessed it, by 3mm. That thicker hat moves the slicer out 3mm. Now as if this isn't confusing enough,,,, You can put a 95 hub (3mm thinner than a 92) on a 92, plus a front 10" composite rotor (3mm shorter hat, and the hat is 3mm thinner) and pull the wheel in 3mm. Kind of fine tune the wheel placement for custom wheels or something like that. In summation, an 89 can come in by 3mm. A 92 can either go out 3mm, or in 3mm from stock. 89 and 92 rear hubs/spindles have completely different bearing setups and are not interchangeable. I played with a lot of parts in the basement to figure this out, hope I remembered it all correctly.
Did you guys notice the 10" front rotors have a thin hat?? That means a 96 upgrade, with thicker rotor hats, increases your front track by about 3mm per side. That effectively changes the front slicers to a 39mm offset, and a 36mm wheel to a 33mm wheel!!! Something to keep in mind when buying wheels.
I'll have to look at some of the front 10" setups, did they all have the same thickness rotor hats up front??? If different could it be possible the hubs are different too??? I know the 89 has a smaller center ring for the rotor, but what about the hub thickness? Back to the basement for more experimenting!!!!

Perry Toledo,Ohio

<small>[ March 29, 2003, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: pjtoledo ]</small>
 

SHOspeed93

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Hey havent you guys heard of wheel spacers, I remeber seeing a place that made them for the sho for around 50 bucks, then all youll need is longer lug bolts, any machine shop could make you some for cheap, and its a **** of alot easier than changing the knuckles...
Tony
 

pjtoledo

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For some of us it's all about how to figure out how to do more with what you got. I enjoy wrenching and "engineering" almost as much as driving!!! You should see my basement floor, metal shavings everywhere,,on "my side" that is. I still have just the rear of a 93 parts car tipped up on end, and hidden in the garage, just so I can experiment with different rear suspension setups. Keep them fingers dirty and enjoy!

Perry Toledo,Ohio


How can you use a spacer to pull a wheel in 3mm??? :)

<small>[ April 05, 2003, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: pjtoledo ]</small>
 

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