What Supercharger should i use?

[BlackonBlack89]

I'm not for or against either the turbo or supercharger idea. Both are equally fun and have their "goods" and "not as goods" to them. A turbo is rather easy to fab up in your own garage, for the most part. It generally can be cheaper and it happens to have better driveability than the comparable SHO SC kits.

IMO a s/c would be alot eaiser than a turbo. A turbo REQUIRES welding and tools. Alot more planning and relocations. I'm sure u are aware that basically taking the s/c crap stuff off is easy. It became real easier for me as I did like 10 times in a weekend!!!!!!!!! Its basically taking the alt. of cept the bolt are longer haha.

If you were to do a custom ss s/c setup u could have someone do the little bit of welding for you. Turbo on the other hand is lots of welding and pipe fitting.

Like jason said there both fun, both have their perks and cons. Either way a boosted SHO is very fun. And IMO the tuning is the hardest part.

 

[Brett]

All depends on what your looking for, and how much you have to spend. A turbo fab is USUALLY cheaper then an SC, id imagine most, not all people who build a SHO, are on a bit of a budget.

 

[yamahaSHO]

IMO a s/c would be alot eaiser than a turbo. A turbo REQUIRES welding and tools.

Without a kit, I honestly don't know how you would S/C a car without the same.

Alot more planning and relocations. I'm sure u are aware that basically taking the s/c crap stuff off is easy. It became real easier for me as I did like 10 times in a weekend!!!!!!!!! Its basically taking the alt. of cept the bolt are longer haha.

I don't agree.... It's pain in my ********. With my intake and other lines running around the blower, it isn't a quick or easy process. Scott's turbo SHO is pretty much like working on a stock SHO under the hood.

If you were to do a custom ss s/c setup u could have someone do the little bit of welding for you. Turbo on the other hand is lots of welding and pipe fitting.

So is an exhaust... I really don't see how it would be much more difficult. Basically you create and exhaust system running through a snail. The intake side can easily be silicon hoses.

 

[BlackonBlack89]

Come'on jason scott's doesnt count. Come'on really....lol


Seriously the only thing I see needing to be welded is the s/c bracket spacers. The spacers for the bolts. And you can take it to someone and $25 later be done. Welders are expensive you know. If you had a bracket the rest is cake work. charge pipe could be couplers. Really the hardest part is the first time b/c of the fact u have to figure out wat to do. Compared to piping a turbo (custom y-pipe, up-pipe, down pipe, and the W/G dump tied back in)

A s/c install is cake compared to all that work even if you did a custom/copy SS supercharger setup. Thats all I am saying and it my opinion. (the right one may I add)

I had a hard enough time getting the charge pipe to stop hitting the hood pad. Now double the pipes. (charge and exauhst pipes)

 

[yamahaSHO]

Come'on jason scott's doesnt count.


Seriously the only thing I see needing to be welded is the s/c bracket spacers. The spacers for the bolts. And you can take it to someone and $25 later be done. If you had a bracket the rest is cake work. charge pipe could be couplers. Really the hardest part is the first time b/c of the fact u have to figure out wat to do. Compared to piping a turbo (custom y-pipe, up-pipe, down pipe, and the W/G dump tied back in)

A s/c install is cake compared to all that work even if you did a custom/copy SS supercharger setup.

All I'm saying is its easier to say it than do it. I had a hard enough time getting the charge pipe to stop hitting the hood pad. No double the pipes. (charge and exauhst pipes)

If you already have to to the exhaust for bigger power, running a turbo really isn't any harder than running a normal exhaust AND you generally don't have to remove the turbo or piping to work on other parts of the motor.


A custom y-pipe would be much easier than making a bracket that puts the blower in the correct height (ask Terry) and perfect spacing with the rest of the pulleys.

I've done turbo and S/C setups and will turbo my next toy, whatever that ends up being. If you think it is easier, by all means, that's the route to take for you. I would turbo if I had to do it all over again.

 

[BlackonBlack89]

:frantic: Its fun debating with you jason lol.

I'm going to go drive the 89 now.


but who said the exuast needs to be touched....ur cheating!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[krednjen]

Of course it is over-simplified... You MUST tailor to your audience.

I was trying to be polite.

I constantly fight belt slip issues with the SC.

I was comparing apples to apples.....both systems functioning properly.

Also, and S/C AND T/C will have to turn and VERY HIGH RPM for very high power.

True again......but the turbo has no lateral shaft load and can safely sustain higher rpm.

They both have to spin and the T/C is generally spinning at the higher RPM for a longer period while wrapping out a gear because it can build boost and hold it where something like the common centrifugal blowers used on SHO's will only be spinnig VERY high when the motor is spinning high as well.

True true......partially. Superchargers boost at all times. 200 forced CFM at 2000 rpm will attempt give you more or less 400cfm at 4000rpm, when you factor out efficiency losses. Turbos can be size selected to give you nearly 0 forced cfm until you reach a certain threshold of exhaust flow, and rpm.

My STi turbo doesn't spool gradually at all. I step on it and it spools instantly. My Vortech, on the other hand, is more of a gradual pull of boost.

Again 100% accurate. You just compared your STi to your 20 year old, home built supercharged SHO.

Is there such thing as 'good' gas mileage while boosting?

My point exactly. But thanks for sharing.

The air coming out of my blower is quite warm, even at idle.

Why yes it is.

While the SC doesn't transfer heat from the exhaust side, it does get heat transferred to it from HOT oil, as well as moving gears inside the case.

Yes your 230 degree oil heats your 190 degree supercharger. Conversley, your 400 degree turbo roasts your 230 degree oil.

It is agreed that charge cooling is a great idea for turbo setups, however, when you're getting into the higher boost, it doesn't really matter what you're using, it needs to be charged cooled.

You get a gold star.....no mistakes.

I'd bet that MOST turbochargers out there use coolant to cool the turbo as well. Probably all late model OEM turbo setups have water cooling on the turbo.

Exactly right.....Superchargers dont need watercooling, because they run substantially cooler.

This is one of the biggest problems. S/C's on these car generally put lots of wear on the front main because you have to tighten the belt so much. From experience with tuning S/C and T/C cars with different sized injectors, these Vortech's consume quite a bit of power to tune. I would guess in excess of 50hp.

 

[yamahaSHO]

I was comparing apples to apples.....both systems functioning properly.

With both functioning properly, they are both going to be consistant. Your previous post looked more to be apples to oranges since you said one would be more conistant.

True again......but the turbo has no lateral shaft load and can safely sustain higher rpm.

The shaft movement/load will only be on the input shaft (which it is designed for). The impeller will be driven by gears without the same load the input shaft is receiving. It can also achieve high RPM safely as the speed is multiplied through gearing and not driven directly off of the input shaft.

True true......partially. Superchargers boost at all times. 200 forced CFM at 2000 rpm will attempt give you more or less 400cfm at 4000rpm, when you factor out efficiency losses. Turbos can be size selected to give you nearly 0 forced cfm until you reach a certain threshold of exhaust flow, and rpm.

Superchargers (primarily centrifugal) don't boost all the time. They do spin all the time, however, so does a turbo. In the case of a centrifugal, it takes a bit of RPM to achieve "boost". It's really a toss up what you're trying to achieve. A little throttle will cause the turbo to spool up more at just about any RPM, where a little load will only increase SC RPM if the engine increases in speed. If I step on it at 2,000 RPM, I don't really see any boost, however, the STi will climb rapidly. The real difference would be at high RPM engine braking where the turbo would slow down, but the S/C will still be spinning at the same RPM vs engine speed as it would if the throttle were open.

Again 100% accurate. You just compared your STi to your 20 year old, home built supercharged SHO.

14 year old SHO, 4 year old SC setup.

Yes your 230 degree oil heats your 190 degree supercharger. Conversley, your 400 degree turbo roasts your 230 degree oil.

Agreed, there will be more heat, but people tend to forget that and SC will also get hot enough to **** 300+ degree temps into your intake. On the same token, the SC will have to produce more airflow (read more heat) for the same whp because of the extra drag.

Exactly right.....Superchargers dont need watercooling, because they run substantially cooler.

I wish Vortech would have had self lubricating head units when I put my setup together. The offer them now and that's what my dad is looking to do. It's nice to know a worn return line won't **** the motor.

 

[Titanium89sho]

I wish Vortech would have had self lubricating head units when I put my setup together. The offer them now and that's what my dad is looking to do. It's nice to know a worn return line won't **** the motor.

I made my own return line at a shop that makes high pressure lines for hydraulic units. It fits perfectly and nothing ever touchs it. But if it ever did, it has a layer of wire to protect it. It is also something like 3000 psi, lol. If you want me to send a few pics of it, I can.

Jessey

 

[1995SHO9]

This is why I didnt' get involved in this. Everything turns into an arguement.

Not saying any individual is responsible for it, just saying it happens...............
Ford Performance Specialest offer a supercharger kit, I believe you have already contacted Doug Lewis....

NCtaurusSHO does turbo kits.

They completely build them and tune them there. Although you can change tuning systems later. I know I dyno'd 348whp and 362 ft pounds of torque with them building my setup...

 

[HotRodKid]

holy mongolian cluster frack

some of the posts in this thread are EXACTLY what my signature is about. i was literally talking about Shoforum when i said what i said. i just edited it a bit so it wouldnt be obvious.

thats all i have to add to this thread, now im gonna go play in CAD using some actual knowledge of how things function and how much work it takes to fabricate things to design some parts that will actually work and actually have some value

 

[40BelowSummer]

And if interested, I know where you can get a Vortech S-Trim + bracket/tubing/lines for $1500.

(mods:I paid a classified fee a while ago for this)

 

[yamahaSHO]

This is why I didnt' get involved in this. Everything turns into an arguement.

Not saying any individual is responsible for it, just saying it happens...............
Ford Performance Specialest offer a supercharger kit, I believe you have already contacted Doug Lewis....

NCtaurusSHO does turbo kits.

They completely build them and tune them there. Although you can change tuning systems later. I know I dyno'd 348whp and 362 ft pounds of torque with them building my setup...

I wouldn't let them boost my lawn mower, to be honest.

holy mongolian cluster frack

some of the posts in this thread are EXACTLY what my signature is about. i was literally talking about Shoforum when i said what i said. i just edited it a bit so it wouldnt be obvious.

thats all i have to add to this thread, now im gonna go play in CAD using some actual knowledge of how things function and how much work it takes to fabricate things to design some parts that will actually work and actually have some value

Value? /\ Like this?/\

 

[HotRodKid]

i had originly typed out a proper response ... well ... some of a proper response. 32 pages in i gave up and flipped out a tad

i type out those responses pretty often, just most of them get deleted before i hit submit.

oh well

 

[1995SHO9]

I wouldn't let them boost my lawn mower, to be honest.




Value? /\ Like this?/\

Damn Jason, your harsh.

that would be so awesome, a boosted gas mower!

 

[krednjen]

Funny thing is, when you go back and read all the posts, you find very little factual disagreement. Somehow it turned into a strongly worded discussion about little or nothing. So as for my part, no offense intended.

 

[94MTX3.2Swap]

wow ill say you guys have let mee see both sides of what im going to be dealing with here i dont plan on doing anything right now to my SHO untill i find a better body to put it all in mine isnt bad but it has some rusted out spots so im going to try and find one thats in better condition.

im going to try and save up for around a year to do this so i hope ill have a good chunk of money to play with once i start doing this you all have gave me loads of great info and i thank you all for that

 

[NCTaurusSHO]

I wouldn't let them boost my lawn mower, to be honest.




Why are you such a ******* Dick. I have ben turbo 2 years before I joined the sho comparison forum and still am. By the way quit E mailing my girl to look at you stupid facebook pics . Thanks for talking shit and ****** up threads with your high and mighty I know it all . I never say anything bad about you or any thing you done. You may not agree on the way I do stuff but my shit works and I probbley have the only turbo sho driven daily for a few years know. So thanks for your support

 

[yamahaSHO]

I wouldn't let them boost my lawn mower, to be honest.

Why are you such a ******* Dick. I have ben turbo 2 years before I joined the sho comparison forum and still am.

Congratulations.

By the way quit E mailing my girl to look at you stupid facebook pics.

Apparently your 'girl' e-mailed me at some point as Facebook spammed everyone I've ever had contact with through my Gmail account (ONCE). Maybe she shouldn't be e-mailing me I assure you, I wouldn't invite under my own intuition.

Thanks for talking shit and ****** up threads with your high and mighty I know it all . I never say anything bad about you or any thing you done. You may not agree on the way I do stuff but my shit works and I probbley have the only turbo sho driven daily for a few years know. So thanks for your support

Why so butthurt? This thread was going fine and there is no high and mighty (however there is "correct" and "incorrect"). Someone made a comment about what you did and I made on as well. I do NOT support you or your work, deal with it. Why the **** would you remove a speedo cable to route turbo piping and not reconnect it? Please tell me as a few of us are stumped on that one. Let alone using TWO tuning devices of which one could do all the work by itself.

 

[1995SHO9]

Calm down you two...

Anyways, Jason Z, how the **** do you break someones post into a couple parts like you just did? I can never figure out how to do that.