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Bluestreak

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http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13484713/

Cruisers' cars may be seized

By JOHN DIEDRICH, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
WTMJ-TV and JSOnline.com
6/22/2006
Frustrated by a weekend cruising ritual that gridlocks intersections and gobbles up officers' time, some Milwaukee leaders are pushing for new tools to fight the problem, boosting fines and letting police seize cars by declaring them a "nuisance."


Police Chief Nannette Hegerty and others said the city also needs help from the state Legislature. The state does not allow cities to pass traffic laws that are tougher than Wisconsin statutes. The city wants the authority to take cars and keep them while trying to have them seized in court, as other cities have done.

Ald. Bob Donovan said the Police Department, already stretched thin, can't afford to scramble officers to break up the chronic jams.

"This whole damn thing is making fools of the city. It is unfortunate that state law limits so much of what the city can do," Donovan said. "We are spending an inordinate amount of resources on this."

It is called cruising, but police say it is really anything but that.

Those who do it call it "being in traffic," police say.

At bar time on weekend nights, hundreds of people communicating by cell phones agree on a destination and head out. The traffic quickly jams, drivers put their cars in park, and a makeshift street party starts. Booze-fueled fights often break out. Guns sometimes are fired. Cars cut over lawns.

Authorities cringe to think what would happen if an emergency vehicle had to get through.

"Chaos is really what it is," said Donovan, who saw the issue firsthand after he learned that officers from across the city, including from his south side district, are pulled in for crackdowns.

Last weekend, the department used "saturation patrols" to tackle the issue, Hegerty said. The results: 17 cars towed, 33 people arrested and 124 citations issued. Police were able to tow cars because of traffic violations or because no one was legal to drive them, not because they were part of an effort to jam up traffic.

Hegerty said police, who are now getting calls from resident "spotters" alerting them when trouble starts brewing, will keep up the heat.

"We will arrest people, we will tow cars, we will do whatever is necessary," Hegerty said Wednesday at a news conference at N. 27th St. and W. Capitol Drive, an intersection where traffic is frequently blocked.

<h3>Sitting, not cruising</h3>
Last year, police handed out only 24 cruising tickets, according to the Legislative Reference Bureau. A cruising ticket is given when a driver passes a location several times. What is happening here is driving and then stopping, officials said.

Two proposals to be debated next week are intended to tackle the issue.

Ald. Joe Davis wants to increase traffic fines in the areas where the problems occur.

A proposal by Donovan and Ald. Tony Zielinski goes further.

They want to beef up the city's riot and illegal assembly ordinance. The proposal, which will be debated next week in committee, defines "unlawful assembly of motor vehicles" as three or more cars gathered in a manner that could injure someone or damage property. The proposal also would ticket people on foot who contribute to such a disorderly scene.

The existing ordinance can bring a $50 fine. The proposal would increase it to between $250 and $1,000.

<h3>Locking up the cars</h3>
If a car is ticketed two or more times, the city could move to seize it in court. But the city can't keep the car while the seizure proceeding advances. A change in state law would be needed to allow that, said Richard Withers, research analyst for the city, who has studied the issue for months.

Other cities have been able to do that because their states' laws allow it, Withers said.

To fight the problem, other cities have tried to provide legal places for people to show off cars, but it didn't work, Withers said. They found "part of the attraction is the fact it is lawless that apparently makes it exciting," he said. The best antidote in other places was "strict enforcement," he said.

Authorities can seize cars and other property as part of drug operations. In Milwaukee, the city can take cars involved in soliciting a **********, Withers said. But taking cars causing havoc on the roads would be new.

Donovan said it is about time.

"I think the message would be loud and clear: You aren't going to just pay 100 bucks and get your car back," he said. "Wheels are important to these folks, as they are to everyone."

Taking cars would raise civil rights concerns, said Stan Stojkovic, dean of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee's Helen Bader School of Social Welfare.

"There could be abuse. If you do something like that, you better think it through," he said. "There is no easy answer to this problem. You have to be vigilant. But you have to make sure vigilance isn't excessive."
 

93redATX

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Personally, being a strict libertarian, I find this abhorrent. Then again, if you've never been on the streets of Milwaukee around midnight to see one of these events first hand, you won't really understand what they are trying to combat.

The thing that really gets under my skin is that the city of Milwaukee wants a change in state law to suit them. Only bad can come from a change like that.

Either way, that's why I'm looking to get the **** out of this sh!thole state :wave:
 

MilTownSHO

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I think its excellent, having been stuck in the middle of one or two of these myself trying to get home late at night. :thumb:

Do I think it will fix the problem though? Nope
 

dantheman68

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i dont understand... not changing the rule just gives them more reason to beat the **** out of another person... they seem to enjoy doing that...

but i do understand how its a problem... they should still be able to handle it however... they ARE the police
 

93redATX

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Right, so people should get their cars towed never to get them back, before ever stepping foot in a courtroom? I don't think so.

The way I see it, the government needs to prove their case before they can go around taking people's property. Unfortunately, the government doesn't do that and people allow it to happen.
 

shonole

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dantheman68 said:
i dont understand... not changing the rule just gives them more reason to beat the **** out of another person... they seem to enjoy doing that...

but i do understand how its a problem... they should still be able to handle it however... they ARE the police

I'm not familiar with the laws in Wisconsin, as they vary from state to state, but I can speak from experience working with GA laws. Oftentimes, Law Enforcement Officers' hands are "tied" so to speak, due to the way some of the statutes are written. Add in case law to contend with, and sometimes it can be a *excuse my french* "real cold hard bit*h" to try and prosecute someone. At least the City is trying to be proactive with solving this problem. Maybe a Officer from WI could speak up, because I'm curious as to why state law restricts cities from passing stricter traffic laws? :nuts: In GA, state law only restricts cities from passing more lenient statutes, not more restrictive ones.
 
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Bluestreak

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Well see the thing Idon't like it they can fine you for driving around. That to me is Bull ****. I can see if you pull over in some spot and start causing trouble. BUt if your just out for a drive; I'd have problems with handing out tickets for that.

BUt then again, in Sheboygan, we don't have issues with traffice jams becasue of people out driving. That is my only beef. If your going to to cause trouble.... I'm all for throwing the book at you. If you just want to drive around, have fun. I feel tickets for 'cruising' are total BS.
 
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93redATX

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shonole said:
I'm not familiar with the laws in Wisconsin, as they vary from state to state, but I can speak from experience working with GA laws. Oftentimes, Law Enforcement Officers' hands are "tied" so to speak, due to the way some of the statutes are written. Add in case law to contend with, and sometimes it can be a *excuse my french* "real cold hard bit*h" to try and prosecute someone. At least the City is trying to be proactive with solving this problem. Maybe a Officer from WI could speak up, because I'm curious as to why state law restricts cities from passing stricter traffic laws? :nuts: In GA state law only restricts cities from passing more lenient statutes, not more restrictive ones.

I'm not positive, but I believe the relevant statute is 66.0109. I can't find anything else directly relating to the issue, but I didn't dig through all the chapters, either. It looks like it'd be in chapter 66, at least.

You can go to http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/stats.html to read the statutes.
 
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etc1006

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Man, I don't remember traffic being that bad... Of course it's been awhile since I've been there, I have family all over Miltown. My Aunt lives not far from the Airport...
 

93redATX

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The problem is worst along the north side thoroughfares (North Ave, Capitol, Fond du Lac, Sherman, etc.)
 

Wht91+

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IDK about the north side. they are all losers. the southside is where its at. BTW HWY 100 is on the southwest side.
 

smokin joe

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yeah they are more takling about the cruising when people hang out windows stand on cars and all that shit
 

93redATX

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Wht91+ said:
IDK about the north side. they are all losers. the southside is where its at. BTW HWY 100 is on the southwest side.

I know where 100 is; the article isn't talking about cruising, per se. The issue in the article is the large amounts of people who congregate on the streets with their cars, jamming up traffic. It doesn't occur until later on at night.
 

Wht91+

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93redATX said:
I know where 100 is; the article isn't talking about cruising, per se. The issue in the article is the large amounts of people who congregate on the streets with their cars, jamming up traffic. It doesn't occur until later on at night.


I understand but they arnt talking about what I do on the weekend.
 

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