Transmission Problem and Non-responsive Dealer

[KDubb]

I took my 2010 in to have the dealer look at the transmission “slip on take off”. The problem does not happen often, but when it happens, the ‘bump’ is very harsh and it seems that this cannot be good for the transmission. I see that there are a lot of posts from people with similar problems.

Anyhow, the dealer indicated that they would not even take the car in and write a service report on it if they could not replicate the problem in a test ride. I had them keep the car for other service and they will do “diagnostics” on the car, but I have no hope that they will identify anything.

I pointed out that there is a TSB which describes the behavior and repair, but they will not do the TSB unless they confirmed the behavior.

Does the 'transmission slip' that other people experience happen 100% of the time or only once in a while?

How has other people’s service departments handled this? How has Ford handled this?

 

[Ishodu]

Take the car to a different dealer. If your describing the issues with your car and there is a TSB to fix it they should damn well perform the TSB on the car.
I got 3 TSB's done on my truck last week with out the dealer even looking at it.

 

[lowc]

sounds like you need to find a new dealership for service. Reguardless if the are able to duplicate the issue they should still have it documented that the consern was brought up.

 

[Denny]

Ford will only pay the dealer for valid concerns that can be documented and fixed with a manufacturer approved repair. If they can't duplicate the concern, they can't fix what isn't "broken." If the concern can't come up on the test drive with an advisor or technician, ask if a service manager will be willing to drive the vehicle with you.

 

[jcgrumman]

If they can't duplicate the concern, they can't fix what isn't "broken."

It isn't broken, but it is malfunctioning intermittently. I had the exact same experience with my service manager but I was able to bring some pressure on him from "above" and he relented. It is really annoying that this significant transmission event doesn't create a code.

This is a known problem with a known cure (11-5-6) and absolutely should be taken care of without the dealer having to confirm it.

James

 

[lowc]

Ford will only pay the dealer for valid concerns that can be documented and fixed with a manufacturer approved repair. If they can't duplicate the concern, they can't fix what isn't "broken." If the concern can't come up on the test drive with an advisor or technician, ask if a service manager will be willing to drive the vehicle with you.

either way their not going about it in the right manner, telling him that they need to varify the consern before they will write it up. Its just not right. And what you want to do is have the trans guy take it for a ride, 90% or the service managers Ive worked for dont know thier ass from thier elbow when trying to verify something on a test drive. If it starts to happen a little bit more offten then you could also have the trans guy take it home with him to get some more time driving the vehical.

 

[Crax]

Wow ok yes my story matches yours. Bump happens rarely but it is horrible sounding when it does. To answer your specific question here's my experience - I get a harsh bump going after slowing/near stop maybe once every 6-8 weeks. I am better at avoiding the circumstances that cause it now so it happens less. More frequently, again slowing then going, it feels like the car has 100 hp. Seriously it will take 8 or 9 seconds to get from 30 to 40 mph. That happens at least once a week.

I finally went to the dealer. Basically they said if they can't replicate they will not fix. We then spent a half hour with me driving and the service advisor in the car coming to a stop then gassing it trying to replicate the issue, which I could not. Note: this is in 100 degree heat and I swear the car was starting to smoke - advisor was like "Hey I have all afternoon" but I just had to call it lest something else go wrong. He also said I should use Shell gas and that might avoid the problem. Yes, the brand of gas is likely causing the transmission to slip I am sure.

Now for interesting part - I called the SVT hotline the next day which was a fascinating experience. No robo-menus to navigate, some guy just basically answered and we started talking about my issue and he RIGHT AWAY was like "oh you're talking about 11-5-6?" It was great to get someone who knew about the cars on the line. Problem is what he told me was rather mixed.

On the one hand, and I quote "they do not need to replicate this issue to do the repair" was clearly stated. On the other he said to either ask dealer #1 for the number for the local field rep and discuss it with him. Or, he urged me to just go to another dealer.

So I am going to have to say you should NOT have to reproduce this to get it repaired, although I am going through the same boneheaded crap you described. Want to verify anything I said ? Call 1800 FORDSVT and have a chat.

I don't have a conclusion to share unfortunately. I have left 3 voicemails with the dealer about getting the field rep's #. Oddly no one has returned my call. The SVT people did mention if I got stonewalled they could get a manager involved which I think I may do next. While I could just go to another dealer I am frankly kind of ****** now and don't really want to let the first dealer off the hook so easy. SHO is an expensive car and I expect better from Ford. If it is too much trouble to even return my calls I am happy to go back to a true luxury brand...

Anyway good luck keep updating here, I think this issue is a pain and the more info that can be shared, the better.

 

[jcgrumman]

I always thought that the dealers were eager to do service work including warranty work. Do the dealers make less money on warranty work? Do they get some sort of kick-back for avoiding warranty work?

If the customer were to go to a dealer and say "I would like to have the TSB done so that I won't run into that problem", I could understand them refusing to do the work. But if a customer says he is experiencing a known problem which is known to be intermittent and difficult to replicate, and Ford doesn't require verification, then you do the TSB- end of story.

If I have any more issues like this with my dealer I will never go back.

I received a call from the dealer inquiring about my satisfaction with the service on my SHO and I gave them a below average report. The girl went on to ask "if you are contacted by Ford (corporate) will you be able to give us an excellent rating" I laughed and said "not a chance".

JAMES

 

[Billm0066]

I just had 11-5-6 done last week. When I brought my car in I said "I get a bump a couple times a week, so you wont be able to duplicate it unless you're lucky". The guy said no problem and I got my car back a few days later with the TSB done. No bumps since.

 

[Denny]

Getting warranty work done is not really different than using ones medical insurance. You don't just go to the doctor and say I'm having heart problems, so give me some drugs. Your insurer is going to want to know why. And a doctor won't just perform some type of action without a just cause otherwise they would get hammered by regulating authorities and liable to be sued. Somebody will have to verify what ails you, hopefully diagnose it properly, and prescribe the known treatment.

Warranty work is pretty much the same thing. The concern has to be diagnosed, the root/causal component identified and why and then proceed with the known service action. Otherwise you're throwing parts when it may not help at all.

Now, some TSBs will state that no diag is needed, "if customer reports the following symptoms proceed with service action." Otherwise the TSB will state "verify concern, proceed to step BA.

As for the rep's phone number, you can contact Customer Service at 1-800-392-3673. Your local dealer may or may not have put the word out to their rep about your concern. You're always more than welcome to follow up with them, however, I highly doubt they will get you the direct contact info. SVT is not the one paying the dealer for the repair so take the guys word with a grain of salt.

And yes, warranty work is typically paid out less than retail work. Labor times are setup by SEO/PTS and parts pricing are set. All parts are to be returned for testing and validation and all claims are subject to auditing and chargeback. It's not uncommon for a dealership to be found to be noncompliant and have tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars of work go unpaid or get charged back.

As for the service advisor and manager, you can **** with them by rating the surveys as anything less than "absolutely satisfied." That's why the girl asked about the question. Depending on the pay plan with the dealer the way you answer those questions can cost them a couple to hundreds of dollars or even their job.

 

[steve142857]

Getting warranty work done is not really different than using ones medical insurance. You don't just go to the doctor and say I'm having heart problems, so give me some drugs. Your insurer is going to want to know why. And a doctor won't just perform some type of action without a just cause otherwise they would get hammered by regulating authorities and liable to be sued. Somebody will have to verify what ails you, hopefully diagnose it properly, and prescribe the known treatment.

Warranty work is pretty much the same thing. The concern has to be diagnosed, the root/causal component identified and why and then proceed with the known service action. Otherwise you're throwing parts when it may not help at all.

Now, some TSBs will state that no diag is needed, "if customer reports the following symptoms proceed with service action." Otherwise the TSB will state "verify concern, proceed to step BA.

As for the rep's phone number, you can contact Customer Service at 1-800-392-3673. Your local dealer may or may not have put the word out to their rep about your concern. You're always more than welcome to follow up with them, however, I highly doubt they will get you the direct contact info. SVT is not the one paying the dealer for the repair so take the guys word with a grain of salt.

And yes, warranty work is typically paid out less than retail work. Labor times are setup by SEO/PTS and parts pricing are set. All parts are to be returned for testing and validation and all claims are subject to auditing and chargeback. It's not uncommon for a dealership to be found to be noncompliant and have tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars of work go unpaid or get charged back.

As for the service advisor and manager, you can **** with them by rating the surveys as anything less than "absolutely satisfied." That's why the girl asked about the question. Depending on the pay plan with the dealer the way you answer those questions can cost them a couple to hundreds of dollars or even their job.

Understood, but the way I would debate on this is that let's say you are already on medication and they find out that there was something wrong with the medication, then I would expect them to adjust or correct my medication to give me the good one, the one that is good for my body. Translate that to the car... If they found out that something was wrong with the transmission that were built before a certain date and since they adjusted/corrected it by adding a piece and reprogram, then I would expect them to perform the TSB without questions... Actually, that is what my dealer did, they tried to make the bump happen in a test drive, didn't happen but then told me they would do it anyways because an existing TSB existed for the symptoms I had told them.

 

[KDubb]

Thanks for the inputs all, I think most of us are on the same page and have high expectations for (and satisfaction with) Ford and the SHO. But I have to add:

The difference between medical insurance and a car warranty is that I paid a bunch of money for a vehicle and I have expectations for that vehicle. If the manufacturer wants me to buy another vehicle then they have a responsibility to make things right. A doctor makes no representations before I exercise my medical insurance. The fact the a problem is intermittent does not absolve the manufacturer of anything. (If I went into a Dr office and said my heart stopped this morning, he wouldn't tell me to come back when it happens all the time.)

Thanks again to all who have provided useful input.

 

[markathome]

It's all about finding a good dealer and service manager....
I had similar issues in the beginning with a dealer. Ford Customer Service told me to go to another dealer for second opinion. When I got there, they were great, applied the TSB's and now no problems....been almost 8 months.

 

[nynd]

Wow ok yes my story matches yours. Bump happens rarely but it is horrible sounding when it does. To answer your specific question here's my experience - I get a harsh bump going after slowing/near stop maybe once every 6-8 weeks. I am better at avoiding the circumstances that cause it now so it happens less. More frequently, again slowing then going, it feels like the car has 100 hp. Seriously it will take 8 or 9 seconds to get from 30 to 40 mph. That happens at least once a week.

I finally went to the dealer. Basically they said if they can't replicate they will not fix. We then spent a half hour with me driving and the service advisor in the car coming to a stop then gassing it trying to replicate the issue, which I could not. Note: this is in 100 degree heat and I swear the car was starting to smoke - advisor was like "Hey I have all afternoon" but I just had to call it lest something else go wrong. He also said I should use Shell gas and that might avoid the problem. Yes, the brand of gas is likely causing the transmission to slip I am sure.

Now for interesting part - I called the SVT hotline the next day which was a fascinating experience. No robo-menus to navigate, some guy just basically answered and we started talking about my issue and he RIGHT AWAY was like "oh you're talking about 11-5-6?" It was great to get someone who knew about the cars on the line. Problem is what he told me was rather mixed.

On the one hand, and I quote "they do not need to replicate this issue to do the repair" was clearly stated. On the other he said to either ask dealer #1 for the number for the local field rep and discuss it with him. Or, he urged me to just go to another dealer.

So I am going to have to say you should NOT have to reproduce this to get it repaired, although I am going through the same boneheaded crap you described. Want to verify anything I said ? Call 1800 FORDSVT and have a chat.

I don't have a conclusion to share unfortunately. I have left 3 voicemails with the dealer about getting the field rep's #. Oddly no one has returned my call. The SVT people did mention if I got stonewalled they could get a manager involved which I think I may do next. While I could just go to another dealer I am frankly kind of ****** now and don't really want to let the first dealer off the hook so easy. SHO is an expensive car and I expect better from Ford. If it is too much trouble to even return my calls I am happy to go back to a true luxury brand...

Anyway good luck keep updating here, I think this issue is a pain and the more info that can be shared, the better.

Your issue is the TRS sensor - get them to order a new one and change it. TRS - Transmission Range Sensor which they can check by measuring the ohms on it. There is a SSM "Service Message" on it and what happens is it looses track of what gear its in so re-starts it in 1st gear which is why you feel a big "bang" when your already rolling off a start.

 

[steve142857]

Wow ok yes my story matches yours. Bump happens rarely but it is horrible sounding when it does. To answer your specific question here's my experience - I get a harsh bump going after slowing/near stop maybe once every 6-8 weeks. I am better at avoiding the circumstances that cause it now so it happens less. More frequently, again slowing then going, it feels like the car has 100 hp. Seriously it will take 8 or 9 seconds to get from 30 to 40 mph. That happens at least once a week.

I finally went to the dealer. Basically they said if they can't replicate they will not fix. We then spent a half hour with me driving and the service advisor in the car coming to a stop then gassing it trying to replicate the issue, which I could not. Note: this is in 100 degree heat and I swear the car was starting to smoke - advisor was like "Hey I have all afternoon" but I just had to call it lest something else go wrong. He also said I should use Shell gas and that might avoid the problem. Yes, the brand of gas is likely causing the transmission to slip I am sure.

Now for interesting part - I called the SVT hotline the next day which was a fascinating experience. No robo-menus to navigate, some guy just basically answered and we started talking about my issue and he RIGHT AWAY was like "oh you're talking about 11-5-6?" It was great to get someone who knew about the cars on the line. Problem is what he told me was rather mixed.

On the one hand, and I quote "they do not need to replicate this issue to do the repair" was clearly stated. On the other he said to either ask dealer #1 for the number for the local field rep and discuss it with him. Or, he urged me to just go to another dealer.

So I am going to have to say you should NOT have to reproduce this to get it repaired, although I am going through the same boneheaded crap you described. Want to verify anything I said ? Call 1800 FORDSVT and have a chat.

I don't have a conclusion to share unfortunately. I have left 3 voicemails with the dealer about getting the field rep's #. Oddly no one has returned my call. The SVT people did mention if I got stonewalled they could get a manager involved which I think I may do next. While I could just go to another dealer I am frankly kind of ****** now and don't really want to let the first dealer off the hook so easy. SHO is an expensive car and I expect better from Ford. If it is too much trouble to even return my calls I am happy to go back to a true luxury brand...

Anyway good luck keep updating here, I think this issue is a pain and the more info that can be shared, the better.

I called the SVT hotline and the guy told me that they don't do nothing about SHOs so I don't know who you skpoe with, but I certainkly didn't get teh same luck as you...

 

[Crax]

Sorry about the SVT line, they really did give me some ideas as above. Though I led with "I'm having a problem getting work done at my dealership" and no so much the car I owned. There is a ford customer service number you could try next though I don't have it handy.

I just found it odd their main advice to me (and others from other posts) was "try another dealership." Sorry but if the dealership says "Ford" I expect it to all behave the same way.

 

[nynd]

Sorry about the SVT line, they really did give me some ideas as above. Though I led with "I'm having a problem getting work done at my dealership" and no so much the car I owned. There is a ford customer service number you could try next though I don't have it handy.

I just found it odd their main advice to me (and others from other posts) was "try another dealership." Sorry but if the dealership says "Ford" I expect it to all behave the same way.

Dealerships are independently owned so each has their own way of doing business and each has different capabilities of its repair staff (I'm putting it nicely - lol). So with that, what they are saying is if one dealership is irresponsive, try another one, which sucks but its probably the best thing to do.

Not sure if you saw my other post - but have the dealership check SSM messages for tranny sensor.

 

[KDubb]

Resolved

After leaving the vehicle, I called Ford (not the SVT line). They were very helpful and said:
1) I could take it to another dealer
2) I could take it to an independent garage and submit the bill for reimbursement. No kidding, but I can imagine taking the bill back to the dealer for submittal to Ford.
They took a report and forwarded the report to the dealer.

I must be the luckiest man alive, because the next day the dealer called and said they confirmed the problem. The dealer performed TSB 11-08-21.

The TSB is a huge improvement. Now I realize the trans had many other minor slips, hesitations, and bumps. Now the trans is ridiculously smooth under all conditions. The paddle shifts seem quicker. I won't know if the TSB fixed the original jolt problem, but day-to-day driving is much improved.

Put me in the satisfied customer column.

 

[Showgun]

Interesting on the new repair #: 11-08-21 ..

Glad to hear that you're happy and the SHO's runnin' like a champ again.

Enjoy (and welcome btw).

 

[Crash712us]

Anybody got any info on this new TSB 11-08-21?