Transmission Kickdown in select-shift mode

stripSHO

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Hi everyone,

I'm reaching out for a sanity check as I'm dealing with a situation with SCT.

When I had my non-PP 2016, mashing the gas would always cause the trans to kick down, even in manual control. Once I got my PP 2016, I discovered that the kickdown/downshift was disabled while manually shifting (shifter has to be in S as well). The same was true of my Gearhead tune. Can anyone please corroborate this difference between the PP and non-PP, that my car is not just an anomaly?

Feel free to skip the novel I'll probably turn the rest of this into. For context, I've bought SCT's tuning software, which btw is absolute garbage and literally unusable by itself to tune these vehicles. Thank you HPTuners for offering free demo software that can do what SCT's $350 paid version can't!

Among the list of their numerous flaws (which I won't get into right now) is that they don't give you the ability to upload a tune from the vehicle but rather you have to start with the "stock" tune they provide within their database or whatever. Well, after flashing my first adjustments I found I couldn't hold a gear without the car kicking down on me.

Okay, that by itself is no big deal. I know how to change it. BUT, what it proved to me is that what they deem as my car's stock tune ain't actually my car's stock tune. Now, there's probably nothing worth worrying about. But knowing that they gave me a non-PP calibration makes me wonder about any differences there may be in the trans tables, shift scheduling, torque limits, etc due to the different gear ratios.

So, I emailed SCT explaining my observations and concerns. I attached the .bef file (the stock calibration) from my livewire, and asked for the ACTUAL stock tune for my vehicle to work with. I also inquired at that time if they had any resources to actually be able to tune the speed density coefficients, as I felt I was missing something. They were pretty quick to respond, and I even had to give them props for getting back to me on a Sunday!

Unfortunately, though, the nameless individual who responded was more interested in trying to troubleshoot the kickdown issue with me. I responded letting them know I had that part figured out already, reiterated that I would like to use my actual stock tune as my starting point (who wouldn't?) and asked a 2nd time if they had anything for tuning the speed density system of the car. From that point on, it's been absolute silence from them. I've sent a few different emails over the last couple weeks and I can't ANY response from them. I even said 'if the answers are no then just tell me no' and got nuthin'.

Then earlier this week I decided I wanted to go back to true stock to log a few things. So I swap the MAP sensor and return to stock through the livewire. Guess what folks? My "stock" car can't hold a gear any more! So not only does SCT and their software not allow me to tune MY vehicle using MY factory calibration, their junk literally erased/overwrote my car's stock tune with their own version of "stock"! This can actually be observed while programming the livewire as one of the steps is "writing stock ecm" or something like that.

I just sent off yet another email explaining the current development. We'll see if they respond but at this point it seems highly unlikely.
 

SM105K

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On my 13 PP it doesn't matter what gear I am in, when I put the shifter in Sport I get an automatic shift down. That is regardless if I turn traction or advance trac off. It did that with my stock tune and still does with my AJPTurbo tunes. Samething when I use my paddles.

It could be a difference in tuning, but also when I put my SHO's shifter in sport mode all parameters of the car change. Obviously steering changes, but so does power output. To the point my SHO on my Livewire with the shifter in sport is 2 to 3 tenths faster in the zero to sixty tests.

It seems you are headed in the right direction with tuning yourself. My advice is ping Matt. I am pretty sure he does quite a bit of tuning on HPTuners as well. He could probably supply you with a stock tune as well.
 

stripSHO

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On my 13 PP it doesn't matter what gear I am in, when I put the shifter in Sport I get an automatic shift down. That is regardless if I turn traction or advance trac off. It did that with my stock tune and still does with my AJPTurbo tunes. Samething when I use my paddles.

It could be a difference in tuning, but also when I put my SHO's shifter in sport mode all parameters of the car change. Obviously steering changes, but so does power output. To the point my SHO on my Livewire with the shifter in sport is 2 to 3 tenths faster in the zero to sixty tests.

It seems you are headed in the right direction with tuning yourself. My advice is ping Matt. I am pretty sure he does quite a bit of tuning on HPTuners as well. He could probably supply you with a stock tune as well.

Thanks. To clarify, what I mean is- say I'm in S and manually shifting, cruising in 6th gear at 55 mph. In stock form, my PP would hold 6th gear no matter how hard or how long I mashed the gas pedal. My non-PP, on the other hand, would still downshift to 3rd in the exact same situation. Now when I return to stock my PP acts like my non PP did
 

SM105K

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Okay now we have clarity. There is a difference between sport mode and manual mode. In manual mode my SHO will hold commanded gears. In datalogs I have bounced 3rd off the limiter before.

In manual I would expect it to hold 6th gear at crusing speeds because you are essentially commanding it too, regardless of pedal position. That would seem normal IMO.

To be honest, I don't like using my paddles. In sport mode my SHO can outshift me 9 times out of 10.
 

stripSHO

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Okay now we have clarity. There is a difference between sport mode and manual mode. In manual mode my SHO will hold commanded gears. In datalogs I have bounced 3rd off the limiter before.

In manual I would expect it to hold 6th gear at crusing speeds because you are essentially commanding it too, regardless of pedal position. That would seem normal IMO.

To be honest, I don't like using my paddles. In sport mode my SHO can outshift me 9 times out of 10.
No doubt, but it's super beneficial for logging and trying to hit areas that you otherwise would never encounter. Also when you're throttle-steering and don't want the thing to upshift right before you leave a corner
 

SM105K

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No doubt, but it's super beneficial for logging and trying to hit areas that you otherwise would never encounter. Also when you're throttle-steering and don't want the thing to upshift right before you leave a corner
Also in the 2010-2012 SHO, the paddle shifters on both sides of the wheel allow you to be able to shift up and down with the same paddle. On the 13+ they do not.
 

limited02

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Also in the 2010-2012 SHO, the paddle shifters on both sides of the wheel allow you to be able to shift up and down with the same paddle. On the 13+ they do not.
That is correct and I hate it. One of these days I'll pull the left paddle out to see if I can swap the wires to make it work the opposite.
 

SM105K

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Also when I think about. When I do my third gear datalogs, I turn advance trac off completely, I put the shifter in sport, and manually shift it into third gear with the paddles. If I don't use the paddle it will auto downshift when I hit the throttle. In manual it hold third gear from either down shifting or up shifting.
 

Nova

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After reading this thread I tried it out on my 18 non-pp today. When in sport mode and I use the paddle shifter to put it into 3rd gear and i floor it, the car never downshifts, it stays in 3rd gear all the way to redline

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 

FiveLeeter918

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Pretty sure I warned you of this when we discussed the PRP package a while back. Since SCT is geared toward professionals, you have to take training courses to unlock most of the tables used to actually make power on these cars. Surprisingly the Ecoboost courses don't even open a lot, you actually have to take the Mustang courses to gain access to some things.
 

High on Ethanol

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I switched to HPTUNERS and it's like a McDonald's and Burger King had a baby
Because I can have it my way and I'm loving it!
 

stripSHO

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After reading this thread I tried it out on my 18 non-pp today. When in sport mode and I use the paddle shifter to put it into 3rd gear and i floor it, the car never downshifts, it stays in 3rd gear all the way to redline

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
That's interesting. The day I got my Livewire, I immediately went out and starting playing around with logging before I even had a tune file from gearhead. Starting with my PP version, I went out putzing around and first realized the gear holding function, as I was able to floor it in 5th gear from like 30mph and it held 5th all the way until I ran out of road. Got home, jumped in the non-PP and went for the same drive but could not get the car to stay in a selected gear like the other car had done just 15 minutes prior. I wonder if they revised this in later years so they were all the same.

I assume you were travelling slow enough that the pcm had ample room to downshift if it wanted to?
 

stripSHO

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Pretty sure I warned you of this when we discussed the PRP package a while back. Since SCT is geared toward professionals, you have to take training courses to unlock most of the tables used to actually make power on these cars. Surprisingly the Ecoboost courses don't even open a lot, you actually have to take the Mustang courses to gain access to some things.

You certainly did, and I inquired about that before purchasing and was told that I would have full access. I haven't found anything "missing" yet when comparing to HPTuners, other than SCT's abysmal lack of descriptions and absolute uselessness for manipulating speed density. Funny that now I'm reading even their dealers use HPTuners to calculate quadratic coefficients just like I've had to. But at any rate, this isn't a matter of not being able access the relevant tables ("Throttle position to enable kickdown in SST mode" iirc). It's now a matter of SCT not allowing you to edit even a factory calibration "as found", and that I now don't have the ability to return my ecm to exactly the way it was before my livewire ever touched it, which are both total BS on principle alone.
 

FiveLeeter918

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when you loaded your tune your Livewire saves a copy of your stock file. Just return to stock.
 

stripSHO

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when you loaded your tune your Livewire saves a copy of your stock file. Just return to stock.
I did that, and it didn't work. When you program the livewire through Advantage, it writes its own stock image to the device. Luckily I saved my original stock file a long time ago but that does no good if I can't get SCT to even look at it.
 

FiveLeeter918

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yea I always export the .cef file and then load that manually instead of direct writing the file.
 

Johnbigdog

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I have the latest ford PCM software on my 16 P.P. if I'm in sport mode and select 6th, the car will down shift when I got to W.O.T. (to 3rd) at 70 mph.

I see you your in Detroit. I'm local to Hartland and can flash your pcm back to stock using and I.D.S. if you want to shoot me a p.m. I wouldn't mind to get out of the house.

Also I would really like to go on a ride with you on a stock tune to see if my car has a lack of power that has been driving me nuts for years
 
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