Takes a long time before starting

[ShineSHOpRacing]

I have a 95 SHO atx , it cranks everytime I wanna go ride. Occasionally it will turn over for an excessive amount of time before cranking. I am worried about damage to the starter and flexplate if this continues. I have tried allowing time for the fuel pump to prime , but this showed no change. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott

[This message has been edited by ShineSHOpRacing (edited 01-13-2002).]

 

[smokesho]

if the starter is fully engaged it should not damage the flywheel. and a starter should be fine turning over for a while....if your battery is. i have the same problem sometimes....try flooring it and releasing once it cranks....this just allows more air to go in and out and may make it easier for your engine to start-up

 

[noSHO]

Automatics don't have flywheels.

 

[Axianator]

Acutally, I've had this SAME problem on my 95 ATX recently (since I bought it a couple of weeks ago). When I bought the car, everything checked out ok. But, since I've had it, I've noticed that, in addition to needing excessive cranks when starting (especially when cold), that the battery indicator light will come on dimly when I'm sitting at an idle (around 600-700rpms). Whenever I give it gas and the rpms are above 900-1000, then it's ok. This would seem to me to be a charging problem of some sort, either with the battery or the alternator. I was hoping that the alternator isn't at fault since the previous owner said he had it replaced not long ago. What do you guys think?


------------------

'95 SHO ATX, 3.2L at 98k miles
Totally stock with cone intake
Planned: 80mm MAF, LPM, Y-pipe
"Now smoking rice with 24 valves!"

 

[sdpatt]

ShineSHOpRacing,

The engine should fire on the first couple of rotations. Something is not right. Do you hear a low, rumbling sound from the fuel tank at idle? That would be the need for a fuel return line check valve. They usually extend the cranking times, but not as badly as you describe.

Your TPS could be sending a bad throttle position signal to the EEC. Do you have any problems with an unsteady idle? Dead spots or hesitation in accelerating? The IAC valve and a crudded up throttle plate could also be causing tough starting. Do you have any other unusual conditions to report?


Adam,

If your engine is turning only 600-700 rpms at idle, it sounds like you need to reset the idle program. This is required anytime the battery is disconnected. To reset the idle, disconnect the battery for 15 minutes to clean out the RAM. Reconnect the battery, start the engine and let the rpms settle for about 15 seconds. Within the first 70 seconds after starting the engine, add all the loads the engine will see at idle: shifter to "D", climate control to AUTO with temp to 60 degrees, headlights ON, press brake pedal and turn steering wheel from side to side. This will teach the EEC the range of motion needed by the IAC valve to maintain the programmed idle speed.


------------------
Scott

1991, 254K miles, glass hood, police grill, SVO shifter, Catz fogs,
K&N, 73mm MAF, Superchip, PP Y-pipe, Borla cat-back, 190 lph pump
Eibach/Tokico/polyurethane, SHO Shop front & rear strut braces,
16x7.5" Moda R1, 225/55ZR16 Bridgestone RE730, -1 deg camber x 4,
6 disc CD, Class II hitch, Silver award at SHOklahoma Car Show

 

[FAST4DR]

I had to turn my ignition key on and off a couple times to build fuel pressure, in order for my car to start on the first turn. I replaced the fuel pump and voila no more excessive priming. Mine old fuel pumps check valve was broke. I guess its a check valve... Anyhow when you shake the pump there is something rattling down one of the long posts that stick up from the top and the new one does not do this. So I would say if you turn your ignition on and off a few times to build the fuel pressure and it starts on the first turn, then it is your fuel pump.

William

 

[sdpatt]

Great shot of the pump and level sensor assembly. The little reddish orange duck call at the far right of the photo is the fuel return line check valve. When this valve wears out, you can't attract any ducks. No, it actually lets the return flow of fuel depressurize and bubble to vapor. This is the cause of the low rumbling noise from the fuel tank. Cheap part, not so esay to get to.

Scott

 

[ShineSHOpRacing]

Thanks for the responses. The only other symptom I can report is the EGR code (same one as in the FAQ , still need to pull intake and clean). Can't really say that there are any sounds from fuel tank. I had a mechanic put it in the air and check it over and did numerous scan tests with nothing at fault except EGR. Again appreciate any help on where to check from here? Wouldn't there be a code if it was TPS or any such electrical component???
Thanks,
Scott

 

[ShineSHOpRacing]

Originally posted by sdpatt:
ShineSHOpRacing,

The engine should fire on the first couple of rotations. Something is not right. Do you hear a low, rumbling sound from the fuel tank at idle? That would be the need for a fuel return line check valve. They usually extend the cranking times, but not as badly as you describe.

Your TPS could be sending a bad throttle position signal to the EEC. Do you have any problems with an unsteady idle? Dead spots or hesitation in accelerating? The IAC valve and a crudded up throttle plate could also be causing tough starting. Do you have any other unusual conditions to report?


SDPATT,
The biggest diagnosis problem is that it is intermitent. Could the fuel return check valve cause this , sometimes the car fires right up. Will look at the option of cleaning IAC . Would TPS throw a code?
Scott

 

[sdpatt]

If the TPS had a dead spot at the idle position, it would act like an open circuit and set a code for low voltage from the TPS.

The fuel return line check valve (boy, that's a cool sounding name for a little rubber duck call) can allow fuel vaporization under some conditions and not others. It may depend on the vapor overpressure in the fuel tank, the fuel temperature or some other effect. I do know that the rumbling wasn't always evident when my check valve needed replacing. The most noticeable effect from the replacement was the silence from the tank. My cranking times also allowed the engine to fire up with just a quick turn of the ignition key.

I'd try the IAC valve cleaning first, since it is much easier to get to and not a bad thing to do anyway.

Scott