supercharger/turbo 411

[yamahaSHO]

OK, I'm new here. However, having read through this thread, I do have a few suggestions first. First...

I have built from the ground up 2 turbocharged Fieros...one of which I got into the mid 12's on a stock bottom end (12.63 to be exact) without a bottle. There a a few pics of my last one floating around the web (and I have a few, of course), and, AFAIK, the car is still cruising the Shrewsberry PA area with the guy who bought it from me.

that said, the SHO lends itself perfectly to boosted operations. At moderate boost, and with the small amount of timing overlap, nice power gains can (and are) expected. My plan? 1994 GL wagon...with a '94 3.2 SHO swap (already havce the cradle, engine, tranny, ect...), 3.0 intake cams, and a Garrett T3/T4 hybrid (sitting on my workbench for rebuild now) with a 10# wastegate, 12# blowoff valve, ect... With the LPM remodulated, I am looking for a reliable 300 hp daily driver. Oh...5K is beyond rediculious if you do the work yourself. My second Fiero cost me $1800. Done. Used parts where available, and no frills. Learn to weld. Be patient. Take it slow. Oh, and in a case like the SHO where few have been done, expect parts breakage.

Neil Samuels
Littlestown, PA

With the LPM remodulated, I am looking for a reliable 300 hp daily driver.

I wouldn't use an LPM if you are looking for a reliable daily driver. Yes, some have done it, but it's not the right way to do it.

At 10 PSI, you'll make way over 300hp. At 11 PSI on a Vortech, I put down 381 whp. Most of the cost of boosting these cars right is not so much the fabrication, but the parts themselves. TwEECer $550, injectors $300+, Properly sized exhuast $300+, supercharger/turbo ?? (my blower alone cost $2k), BOV ??, wastegate ?? proper charge cooling $350++, and on....

It's been done for cheap here, but I believe the motor is now in bad shape from not upgrading things like injectors, fuel pump, etc. From the videos I saw, it wasn't really that fast either.

Since you've got the room, put the SHO motor in the back of the wagon ;-)

 

[Toolman]

OK, I'm new here. However, having read through this thread, I do have a few suggestions first. First...

I have built from the ground up 2 turbocharged Fieros...one of which I got into the mid 12's on a stock bottom end (12.63 to be exact) without a bottle. There a a few pics of my last one floating around the web (and I have a few, of course), and, AFAIK, the car is still cruising the Shrewsberry PA area with the guy who bought it from me.

Cool, sound like fun vehicles. There was a Fiero meet here in OK this summer. Saw some nice cars floating around.

that said, the SHO lends itself perfectly to boosted operations.

One caveat. Like you qualify later, with 'moderate' boost, a stock SHO lends itself well to boosted applications. Anything over 10 non-IC psi (assuming pump gas is used) and I would want forged and lower CR pistons.

At moderate boost, and with the small amount of timing overlap, nice power gains can (and are) expected. My plan? 1994 GL wagon...with a '94 3.2 SHO swap (already havce the cradle, engine, tranny, ect...), 3.0 intake cams, and a Garrett T3/T4 hybrid (sitting on my workbench for rebuild now) with a 10# wastegate, 12# blowoff valve, ect... With the LPM remodulated, I am looking for a reliable 300 hp daily driver.

FWIW, I think you may prefer a larger turbo when all is said and done. Unless you specify a healthy A/R. I am running a .81 hot side on a 62-1, and the car has REALLY come alive with this setup. The old T3/4 hit boost so quickly, car was a little of a handful. Even still, with 10psi and that turbo, you will see an EASY 300WHP. Should be one heck of a sleeper.

Oh...5K is beyond rediculious if you do the work yourself. My second Fiero cost me $1800. Done. Used parts where available, and no frills. Learn to weld. Be patient. Take it slow. Oh, and in a case like the SHO where few have been done, expect parts breakage.

Neil Samuels
Littlestown, PA

Agreed on the price tag, but also I must make some points. I have spared no expense on this most recent setup. That said, the upgrade cost was minimal, and I have, IMO, some of the best components I could hope for. A Turbonetics 62-1, Tial WG and Tial BOV, Greddy Profec A BC. Those items new are only going to run you around $16-1800, and comprise most of what you need for a turbo system save the pipes and fuel upgrades. Also, I would never recommend someone with no experience to 'learn to weld' in hopes of building their own turbo system. Maybe after extensive practice, but the price of having a professional weld up their pipes (they can always spot weld for fitament) well outweighs the cost of a breakdown in the middle of a road trip due to a broken weld.


That said, can't wait to see this project take shape. Exciting, all the turbo SHO projects popping up. Sure hope that some make it to Memphis next year!

 

[HoustinoJillian]

if there was a kit, install, and tune service for a low boost application (ie 7-9 psi) for 5k i'd buy it this summer

that said i'd need it to be proven daily driver, so i'd probably wait a year after the kit came out. so it would be next summer.

 

[yamahaSHO]

if someone can make a 7psi-10psi turbo kit and sell it got ~4k installed i'd but it at the end of this summer.

Huh?

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

if someone can make a 7psi-10psi turbo kit and sell it got ~4k installed i'd but it at the end of this summer.

You are missing the point.

A vast majority of a "boost on a budget" project is from scratch. Lots of custom fab work.

Any kind of "kit" will be very spendy simply to justify R&D.

 

[HoustinoJillian]

You are missing the point.

A vast majority of a "boost on a budget" project is from scratch. Lots of custom fab work.

Any kind of "kit" will be very spendy simply to justify R&D.

true. all im saying is once the R&D is done, there should be some way to make a kit. my car is well maintained, and has many mods that would support FI/ higher HP. so, if there was ever a kit made, especially if someone like tim would install and tune, i'd buy it once it was proven to be reliable. i'm not in the boost on a budget camp. i'm in the pay to play camp, and the only way i would go FI on my car is if 1. it was proven to be reliable (daily driverable) and 2. someone experienced installed/tuned with me.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Reliability is in the tuning...

 

[SHOblime]

motor mounts, tuning, injectors, fuel pump, clutch, gauges........

does the kids really need to go to college?

Couldn't have been said betterer....

 

[celticsam]

R&D? The best kits that I have seen (granted, this is in the Fiero world) were made by fools like me who did it themselves for their own cars...than were copied by anyone with enough nerve and smarts to ask the right questions. Once a good exhaust is made, it is reasonably easy for a COMPETENT muffler shop to bend and weld up a duplicate (Mandral bends are a must...and good welds). Beyond the exhaust, copying components from a known working system will give you similiar results. Want a kit? Get a parts list from someone who has done it, and start wrenching. Can't wrench? (Poor, poor fool). Money can be exchanged for wrenching know-how in an exponential proportion. The more you have somebody else do your wrenching (read, competent speed shop or very very good muffler shop...no Mieneke here), the more you will pay. Do your own install, and see 300+hp for under $2,000. Shoot, including the purchase price of my wagon, I am looking at a $5000 budget...and that includes buying the SHO drivetrain, swapping it, troubleshooting it (all labor I will do), having it aligned properly, then boosting it and tuning it for boosted operations. Judicious E-bay use, a parts list made BEFORE I start, a general plan for the order of things, and patience. Just as a for example, I bought a '94 SHO cradle with a 7K mile engine (rebuilt), newer transmission (around 50K), and good suspension for $600. The wagon? $300.Estimate for a SHO powered wagon? $3000. Estimate for turbo addition? $2000. Done.

Neil

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

Do your own install, and see 300+hp for under $2,000. Shoot, including the purchase price of my wagon, I am looking at a $5000 budget...and that includes buying the SHO drivetrain, swapping it, troubleshooting it (all labor I will do), having it aligned properly, then boosting it and tuning it for boosted operations.

Ill believe it when I see it.

And beleive me, Id LOVE to see you prove me wrong.

Parts alone to make and support 300+ hp is going to cost more than $2k

Fuel pump (255lph) $100
Injectors (42 lb) $2-300
modified fuel rail $80
FPR $200
MAF $100
WB O2 w/ controller $300
Tweecer RT $500
Motor mounts $200

****, thats over 2 grand already, and you dont even have a turbo yet, or any plumbing!

Add a proper FMI + $300
misc. exhaust tubing for plumbing + $200
Misc steel items for flanges, bungs + $100

And STILL, NO TUBRO!

As I said, Id LOVE for you to prove me wrong.

 

[SuperchargedSHOguy]

Ill believe it when I see it.

And beleive me, Id LOVE to see you prove me wrong.

Parts alone to make and support 300+ hp is going to cost more than $2k

Fuel pump (255lph) $100
Injectors (42 lb) $2-300
modified fuel rail $80
FPR $200
MAF $100
WB O2 w/ controller $300
Tweecer RT $500
Motor mounts $200

****, thats over 2 grand already, and you dont even have a turbo yet, or any plumbing!

Add a proper FMI + $300
misc. exhaust tubing for plumbing + $200
Misc steel items for flanges, bungs + $100

And STILL, NO TUBRO!

As I said, Id LOVE for you to prove me wrong.

Include mandatory maintainance items if you plan to boost:
ROD BEARINGS, plugs, wires, misc gaskets, timing belt...you are crazy not to do these just for piece of mind.

 

[UnderPSI]

To run 5-7psi most of that is not needed.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Ill believe it when I see it.

And beleive me, Id LOVE to see you prove me wrong.

Parts alone to make and support 300+ hp is going to cost more than $2k

Fuel pump (255lph) $100
Injectors (42 lb) $2-300
modified fuel rail $80
FPR $200
MAF $100
WB O2 w/ controller $300
Tweecer RT $500
Motor mounts $200

****, thats over 2 grand already, and you dont even have a turbo yet, or any plumbing!

Add a proper FMI + $300
misc. exhaust tubing for plumbing + $200
Misc steel items for flanges, bungs + $100

And STILL, NO TUBRO!

As I said, Id LOVE for you to prove me wrong.

In his defense, some of these parts can be had for less... but some are a little more than you listed Kenny.

Here was my cost... And I'm always looking to make my money go a long way.

Fuel pump (255lph) - $75
Injectors (44 lb) - $260 shipped
modified fuel rail - $100
FPR - $230 + shipping
MAF - $50
WB O2 w/ controller - $330 + adapter and NB gauge
Tweecer RT - $400
Motor mounts - Don't remember what I paid

****, thats over 2 grand already, and you dont even have a turbo yet, or any plumbing!

Water injection - $350
exhaust - $350

That doesn't count my blower (I didn't skimp out with it either), piping, hoses, clamps, BOV, etc.

This is for my SC setup, a turbo setup will vary in many ways.

To run 5-7psi most of that is not needed.

Let us know when you blow your first motor....

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

To run 5-7psi most of that is not needed.

Who said anything about boost levels? Depending upon how well the motor is breathing, boost levels dont mean squat.

Im talking about mods to handle 300+ hp properly.

Sure you could go with a lower flow fuel pump, but they cost the same.
Sure you could go with lower flow injectors, but the cost the same!

300 hp is right about where both the stock fuel pump and MAF get maxed.

Let me add 2 more to the list of items needed..... some key ones I forgot:

Clutch $400
Exhaust $500 (custom y-pipe, single 3" catback)
Reinforced Trans

Plus, as SCSHOguy pointed out, it would be outright DUMB to boost a stock, 10-16 year old SHO motor without the proper maintenance.

Lastly, I enjoy seeing all of these newly boosted SHO projects. But I HATE to see half-assed ones that only blow up perfectly good SHO parts that ae hard to come by as it is.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Even on a stock motor with those boost levels, he'll be over 300hp. I love seeing boosted motors too. Terry was on a mission to see how cheap he could build one, but he did not skimp on anything. He has injectors, fuel pump, Quaife, FPR, etc... Pretty much everything I have aside from the water injection.

If you're stuck on using stock injectors, at a minimum, get a larger pump and adjustable FPR so you can up the fuel pressure for more flow out of the injectors.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

Even on a stock motor with those boost levels, he'll be over 300hp.

That is what I was thinking. 6PSI should be pushing nearly 300 WHP, nevermind crank numbers.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Here's the thing, when you build a motor, you plan on crank horsepower. If you size your fueling system for whp, then you're going to be hurting. Imagine the motor on a stand and build from there.

I realize you understand that Kenny, I just had to point it out since so many people talk whp numbers.

 

[SinisterSHO]

I'm with Kenny. I would love to see someone actually turbo thier car for under 2k. If you were to do a search for the word 'turbo' I bet most of the posts would be by people claiming they can do it for x amount of dollars. Yet, I can think of four homemade turbo kits. [Bittersweetsho, 1slick89, the guy from N.C., and that one that supposedly ran 12s] Where are all the other 'turbo projects'? I think people tend to get in over thier heads. Running a stock block/pistons is one thing, but you are not going to want to do anything without the mods listed. When you blow that up, you rebuild the motor with low compression and all the components you had and up the boost.

I too, would love to see someone turbo thier car for less than 2k.

 

[UnderPSI]

Who said anything about boost levels? Depending upon how well the motor is breathing, boost levels dont mean squat.

...on how the motor is breathing? Do all SHO's breath differently? How many cars have you put a turbo on? How many systems have you fabricated? Don't let your f*cking ignorance deter people, that is unresponsible.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Modified SHO's breath differently. Porting heads, intake, using different cams, adding displacement all change boost readings. To put it in perspective, a T-trim with a 3.6" pulley will create about 12-13 PSI, but on a cammed and ported SHO, it only produces 11 PSI.

Kenny does not have ignorance working him over. He is currently fabricating his own superchager system for his SHO using a roots blower. The only ignorance I see is not coming from him

There are several members here that really know their SHO's. When they tell you it will cost more to do it right, they have an idea.