Sunday Dyno Session

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Power Surge

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Had some free time today, so I threw the SHO on the dyno and did some tuning on it. Found some interesting info, so I wanted to share it with everyone.

First, let's start with the baseline dyno pull from a few weeks back. Specs on the car at time of dyno were: stock 90 MTX car, 128k miles, no recent servicing.

Here's the graph:

Base

If you notice, the peak hp was about 5700 rpms, and then it dropped off pretty bad from there. You can see the IMRCs opening at 4000 rpms. Not too shabby for a bone stock 128k mile car.

Now, I did a few things to the car recently. The main thing was I wanted to do an upper 60k. So off came the intake and valve covers. Well, the motor was in really good shape, and only required one shim out of all the valves. However, while it was apart, I had the intake powdercoated which meant the insides were cleaned out. I added BBBs, and removed the air horns as suggested here on the forum. I also modded the fuel rails and regulator and added 42s, but that has nothing to do with power output. Lastly, I replaced the stock 55mm MAF with a 73mm C&L one that I got with my 90 parts car (I had it, so why not).

After spending some time building a new MAF x-fer and doing all the part throttle tuning, I then started WOT tuning the car.

Here is the final graph when done:

New

Now here are some interesting things I found, while tuning...

The car made best power at 12.8 A/F across the board. Pretty average, but some NA cars like to be closer to 13.0. My car didn't gain anything at that point. Increased mid range spark added some good power. And an extra few degrees up top, also netted some nice power additions to the graph.

Peak hp is still at 5700, but now it holds it at higher rpms, which will make the car faster and pull more up top.

Interestingly, my tuning software showed the IMRCs opening stock at 3000 rpms, but the car clearly opened right at 4000. This was verified not only on the dyno graph, but with me also watching the movement through the open hood. Oddly, changing the values in the software made no difference at all. I will have to look into that and see if I can get it fixed.

It should be also noted that the C&L MAF made the car VERY lean. Since I was going to be making a new air model x-fer anyway it didn't matter to me, but that's scary thinking about someone putting one on a stock car with no tuning correction.

Another thing I want to point out, was something I was surprised to see. As mentioned, I installed some BBBs, and removed the air horns as per posts from this site. Looking at the results, I think that may actually be a bad thing to do. Take a look at the graph below, with the baseline and new pulls overlayed. In stock form, when the IMRCs open, you can see a jump in power right after. Most of us can "feel" this in the car as well. After I did the new setup, I no longer felt this power burst. The dyno shows why. Now with the BBBs and NO air horns, there is no longer a power gain, now there is a power LOSS when the IMRCs open.

For those not familiar with the term "ram tuning", that is when manufacturers design an intake to use the intake pulses to gain maximum intake and velocity to bring as much air into the cylinders when the intake valve opens. Some cars have intakes that are designed so well, that they can EXCEED 100% VE (volumetric efficiency), which means the ram tuning is actually forcing more air volume in the cylinder than the cylinder holds. Think of it as supercharging on a much smaller scale. The SHO is one of those cars.

From what I've seen on my car, I believe that removing the air horns kills the ram tuning effect, and that is why we see the power drop. Now, the BBBs MAY give you higher rpm power, and some may feel that's a good trade off for the loss of mid range. Personally, I'd really like to make some new air horns that match the size of the BBBs and redo this test.

Basevsnew

The last thing to mention, is that for the last pull I popped the airbox top off. For all these runs, I have been using a standard ole used paper filter. Well, uncorking the airbox and letting the motor have full air feed netted zilch. Nada. Nothing. Not one hp through the entire powerband.

BTW, these are SAE dyno numbers. If you use STD numbers, then the baseline was 185 and the new dyno numbers were 191.

Anyway, I hope my findings today were helpful, and I will post more in the future when I do more to the car. :thumb:
 
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SASHO91

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I'd rather run without the horns.. smoother transition, moves the Tq. higher up, and sounds better. I don't have BBB's, but my butterflies aren't stock either.

Now... the real question... did the COP help any.... :naughty:
 

Power Surge

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I'd rather run without the horns.. smoother transition, moves the Tq. higher up, and sounds better. I don't have BBB's, but my butterflies aren't stock either.

Now... the real question... did the COP help any.... :naughty:

I can tell you this... TIMING is what moved that mid range torque up. It was the same as the baseline pull with the same timing.
 

SASHO91

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Ok... but what about the fact that the secondary runners are now 2-3'' shorter?
I agree that timing does help this motor. Seen it many times with LPM's and what not...
 

sho'd

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thanks for the info, great info for me to keep in mind while doing future updates to my car. Nice work.
 

luigisho

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Actually pretty healthy numbers. I agree with most of your observations. upgraded MAF without tuning is a bad idea. In fact given the price of tuning for the average person the MAF 'upgrade' is not a great idea until far down the list of modifications. The larger butterfly option should pay off with forced induction. :biggrin:

It's great that you have the opportunity to do this kind of stuff and can share your results with data and not just 'butt dyno' interpretation.
 
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LJRuddy

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Why did you shut down so early? It looks like the power it still going on strong. Would of been interesting to see how far up the power will go with your findings.
 

Power Surge

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Why did you shut down so early? It looks like the power it still going on strong. Would of been interesting to see how far up the power will go with your findings.

I really didn't let off early, I was losing the dyno tach signal over 6500. If I put the lower axis on mph instead of rpms, you would see the rest of the graph, but it really wouldn't tell anything.

If you look at the graph, power was on the downslope, so really going another 500 rpms would not have netted any higher numbers.
 

yamahaSHO

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I really didn't let off early, I was losing the dyno tach signal over 6500. If I put the lower axis on mph instead of rpms, you would see the rest of the graph, but it really wouldn't tell anything.

If you look at the graph, power was on the downslope, so really going another 500 rpms would not have netted any higher numbers.
Agreed. The power was already on it's way down. There was no need to keep going.
 

LJRuddy

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I understand that but it would be interesting, to me, to see how well the power holds at the higher rpms.. I know that power drops after 6500 but i have not seen a dyno sheet with such listed mods... Especially with a COP set up.
 

TYSHO

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Who mods a SHO with just BBB's anyway? You don't put those on until you have more modifications that by putting them on, will boost the gains by more than what you're seeing now. It's like putting on a supercharger and saying it makes the car runs too lean and is not a good thing to do, ignoring the fact that the fuel system would change the results.

BTW, stock SHO's put out that much power FWIW.
 
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Power Surge

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Who mods a SHO with just BBB's anyway? You don't put those on until you have more modifications that by putting them on, will boost the gains by more than what you're seeing now. It's like putting on a supercharger and saying it makes the car runs too lean and is not a good thing to do, ignoring the fact that the fuel system would change the results.

BTW, stock SHO's put out that much power FWIW.

First off, the BBBs were in preperation for future mods. However, plenty of people here seem to put them on with other usual bolt ons, so my testing was not that far out of the norm.

Second, stock dyno numbers seem to vary from 175 to 195 whp. Factor in different correction factors and different dynos, and it's a pretty wide range. I had previously posted my bone stock numbers, which were pretty much in the middle of the two. With just the BBBs, a MAF and a tune, my peak numbers only went up slightly, but the car has more power across the band, so it's definitely an improvement over stock.

Lastly, this was not an excercise in making more power. The car needed to be tuned since I added the 42s, so I figured it would be neat just to post the results. The car is still stock, other than the BBBs and MAF.

I still want to see the dyno sheets for an ATX car that makes more that 190whp stock, as claimed above.
 

TYSHO

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First off, the BBBs were in preperation for future mods. However, plenty of people here seem to put them on with other usual bolt ons, so my testing was not that far out of the norm.

Second, stock dyno numbers seem to vary from 175 to 195 whp. Factor in different correction factors and different dynos, and it's a pretty wide range. I had previously posted my bone stock numbers, which were pretty much in the middle of the two. With just the BBBs, a MAF and a tune, my peak numbers only went up slightly, but the car has more power across the band, so it's definitely an improvement over stock.

Lastly, this was not an excercise in making more power. The car needed to be tuned since I added the 42s, so I figured it would be neat just to post the results. The car is still stock, other than the BBBs and MAF.

I still want to see the dyno sheets for an ATX car that makes more that 190whp stock, as claimed above.

Well, you're shooting down BBB's w/removed air horns as a worthless modification and I'm stating you're using and did use them in a WRONG application to determine that. Those who have them do install them with other usual bolt ons as you say, but a MAF, tune, and BBB's is not a combination known for usual bolt ons. You're probably the first one to ever do that combo. Most already have a y-pipe, catback, ported/extrude honed runners, head work, udp's, lw flywheel, cai, and ect.

FWIW on the ATX dyno, I've seen stock ATX's put down what you put down stock. You might find a graph in the dyno section.
 

JustinSane

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i think if we had larger air horns to go with the BBB we would see a improvement over not using them at all regardless of how many mods are done, just my 2 cents.
 

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