"Starter Bump" on ATX?

[HazMatt]

Following the 60k website, (http://www.shophoenixproject.com/lower60k/lower60k.htm) and since im a ***** and tried to skip steps yesterday, I didnt take off the crank pulley therefor I cannot remove my actual lower timing belt cover. I became aware yesterday that t here is an upper, mid, and lower. The mid was broken trying to get the tensioner pulley off, and the lower is still on due to it wrapping around the crank pulley.

Therefor, can you "Starter bump" with an ATX as described on that website? If not can I just strap wrench it? Thanks in advance.

 

[Racer X]

Yes, you can.

 

[SuperHO]

i ain't found a strap wrench with enough balls to hold that pulley so you can torque it enough to get the bolt off...

 

[HazMatt]

hahahaha alright thanks SuperHO

 

[hawkeye18]

That crank pulley alone is why air tools are your friend.

Harbor freight sells a little 3 gallon compressor for about $40 that gives you enough air to zap an impact gun a few times before refills. I highly recommend it. That way, you can also fill your own tires...

 

[HazMatt]

Well that just might be my only option.

I tried to starter bump it, with no avail.

I had the wrench resting on the frame, it didnt bump loose. I tried to let the wrench float a few inches and slam against the frame (with my mechanic neighbors help and advice) and no avail there as well. My engine just wants to crawl out from under the hood when I do this. Its catching, and I'm doing it proper, since the engine is lifting off the ratchet when I bump, but it wont break lose.

Any suggestions?

 

[HazMatt]

p.s. i dont own impact wrenches and I'm now replacing the timing belt as well as the water pump and gasket, so my budget is about gone after I buy the new timing belt cases from a junk yard that I broke. Even if I had the $40 for an air compressor I dont have the impact gun to go with it.

Any less costly alternatives would be well appreciated

 

[HazMatt]

Nevermind I went to my uncles and borrowed his air compressor and his buddies earthquake gun so I should be good. Thanks again everyone.

 

[SHOtimer]

The starter bump isn't working?

Does the starter stop turning the motor when it grabs against the socket?

Make sure you use a 6-point 19m socket, not a 12 point. A 12 point will only strip your crank bolt...which will put you in a much worse situation.

Doug

 

[HazMatt]

Yeah I found out about the 6 points vs the 12 points a while ago, but I thought it was 3/4 not 19mm. Same thing essentially but Im going to switch over to the 19mm since you said it.

And no, the starter bump doesnt work, and neither does the impact gun.

I've tried to bump, impact, bump, impact, etc to no avail.

It makes a sound like it broke loose the first time everytime I try to bump it, but then it doesnt come loose and it doesnt make the sound anytime after that on the following bumps.

 

[HazMatt]

p.s. im not sure what you mean by "Does the starter stop turning the motor when it grabs against the socket?". If you mean do I like lose power or what not, no. When I starter bump it, I let the system "charge" up (the charge up sound you hear once you turn all your stuff on) then I turn the key and let go. I'm essentially "tapping" the key when I try to start the car. Real quick on off type deal. I havent actually sat there and HELD the key for an extended period of time because I dont want that socket flying loose and tearing up my under carriage

 

[Eric VerValin]

You need my cheater bar... 4 bolts, take the hood off, and find a heavy "Rigid" pipe that you can fit your 1/2" ratchet on there. You'll need the hood out of the way so you have room to swing that pipe. Get a 5 foot peice.. I have yet to find a bolt on any car or truck that bar can't snap loose. Kinda suprised that Craftsman ratchet hasn't broken yet.

 

[93rev2sev]

That would work, Eric...on an MTX. With an ATX, you'll just spin the motor...backwards.

The only thing I can recommend if the starter bump doesn't work is to use a 1" bi-metal hole saw and cut the bolt shoulder off.

 

[HazMatt]

If I cut the bolt, wouldnt I then have to tap out the bolt threadings? Thats an area im not comfortable with and I dont feel comfortable doing, so sadly, thats out of the question.

Could I just not be holding the key down long enough? The bar and ratchet is locked in between the subframe, so technically if I held it a little longer my engine is going to pop out or my subframe bolts will snap?

Im not sure if either of those would happen, but what if I tried to hold the key a tad longer? I dont want to screw anything up tho.

 

[Schumacher609]

If I cut the bolt, wouldnt I then have to tap out the bolt threadings?

You just have to cut the ****** off not the head of the bolt.



Follow the green arrow, the ****** has the green dots on it. You can use a hole saw that will clear the head of the bolt to cut it.

Ignore the red arrow it was on the picture when I stole it to point out the ******.

You can take a look at this thread too for reference, there are even videos at the end lol.

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=102534

Make sure to track down a new crank bolt to buy if you have to cut the ****** because you cant get new ones IIRC.

-Mike

 

[HazMatt]

so if i cut that ****** then i try to remove the bolt as normal? am i trying to cut out the entire green dotted piece or just the space behind it so i can loosen the bolt?

 

[93rev2sev]

The ****** is what is providing all the claming forces...When I cut the ****** off of the bolt that withstood 300 foot pounds, I was able to spin the rest of the bolt out with my fingers. No guarantees, but I'd bet you will be able to get the bolt out once the ****** is cut off.

 

[Schumacher609]

so if i cut that ****** then i try to remove the bolt as normal? am i trying to cut out the entire green dotted piece or just the space behind it so i can loosen the bolt?

Take a look at the three videos on page 4 of the link in my other post, you can what they cut off. Again, make sure you have a replacement crank bolt lined up before cutting.

Another thing to try is make sure your battery is fully charged before attempting another starter bump.

-Mike

 

[HazMatt]

What about keeping the key turned a duration longer? If I hold my key say an extra full two seconds will that damage anything and possibly increase chances of breaking it loose or will that cause more problems than I already have? Right now I'm just tapping the key into the ignition position and holding it maybe 0.5sec.

 

[Schumacher609]

Well if the crank bolt is really, really, really stuck and you hold the key in start for too long you run the risk of breaking the ratchet or socket, or both. The starter could get burnt up or the shaft could bend too. That's all worst case scenario stuff.

What gets the bolt to "pop" is usually a quick, hard shot of torque. Not so much the same torque over an extended period of time.

If I were you I would make sure your battery is fully charged and give the starter bump another shot. If that doesn't work get a 3/4 drive impact gun that puts out high torque and a compressor that can hold enough pressure to run it to full potential.

Make sure you have the correct 6-point 19mm socket/impact socket to use in either situation.

If worse comes to worse cut the damn ****** and I'll bet you can spin the bolt out by hand. Post a wanted to buy add here on the forums for a new crank bolt, I know there are people with extras and will work out a deal with you.

Hope this all helps.

Good luck,
-Mike