Stainless Line FAILURE

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Zap

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Has anyone experienced failure on one of the stainless brake lines? I pushed the pedal hard while taking the '94 out to test the reset idle and it went to the floor. Now there is no braking force.

Inspection reveals a fray in the braid and failure in the line beneath. The other three wheels look just fine.

*sigh*

The V8 is torn up for a stuck rear brake, so it looks like I may be walking to the parts store again...
 

Zap

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Earl's Hyperfirm lines... there is a small spot where the stainless portion is frayed, but I can't understand why it would be a problem only on one wheel unless maybe it was defective as new?

At any rate, now I've got a rubber line for the time being, but I can't get the stupid hardline disconnected.... any suggestions are appreciated.

Thankfully the rear brake job on the V8 is almost done - but it still sucks sharing one car.
 

Brett

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Has anyone experienced failure on one of the stainless brake lines? I pushed the pedal hard while taking the '94 out to test the reset idle and it went to the floor. Now there is no braking force.

Inspection reveals a fray in the braid and failure in the line beneath. The other three wheels look just fine.

*sigh*

The V8 is torn up for a stuck rear brake, so it looks like I may be walking to the parts store again...

You should have learned by now! by a honda for parts running. :p
 

Ghost93

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That would make the second time I've heard of an Earls line failure. Matasho's car blew both the fronts at the same time.
 

gmorrell

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I know someone else who just recently had a simultaneous failure of both front braided brake lines on a SHO.

We determined that when he had his wheels re-balanced recently, the tech added weight on the inside rim edges with clip-on weights. These spinning chunks contacted the braid when the wheel reached a certain turning angle and wore little patches through the braid, which allowed the inner Teflon liner to fail. He blew through an intersection and hit a curb, and luckily hit no one else.

Words of caution on these lines: Unless you 100% trust the people who made your lines to fit correctly and not contact anything, you need to remove the suspension spring, disconnect the anti-roll bar link, mount the wheel, and then move the suspension through its full range of bump, rebound, and turning angle, in as many combinations as you can think of to ensure that there is no contact between these lines and any moving or stationary parts.

Keep in mind that lines that don't contact anything with 6 or 7" wide wheels will probably contact with 8" wide wheels.

Additionally, every time you have a wheel off, you need to thoroughly inspect these lines for any signs of damage, wear, or kinking. If a line is damaged, stop driving the car NOW.

OEM flex lines can take a lot of abuse and not fail, this is not the case for aftermarket braided SS lines, just a few wires of braid can fail and these lines will blow right out. In professional racing, SS braided lines are considered wear parts, and are replaced frequently, often every race.
 
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Zap

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Additionally, every time you have a tire off, you need to thoroughly inspect these lines for any signs of damage, wear, or kinking.

OEM flex lines can take a lot of abuse and not fail, this is not the case for aftermarket braided SS lines, just a few wires of braid can fail and these lines will blow right out. In professional racing, SS braided lines are considered wear parts, and are replaced frequently, often every race.

Gary,

Thank you for the sage advice. When I installed the lines about three years ago there was a lot of praise for them, but I don't think I was aware of the risk. They do improve the braking, but this isn't a track car and knowing this now I'd probably think twice about using them in the future.

I'm just glad that I had taken the car out around the neighborhood to recheck that it would hold idle with the A/C on... This is my girlfriend's car and she could have easily been driving it going 65 MPH on the freeway (she's got a bit of a commute into town for work) when it let go. I don't want to think about what could have happened, and I'm thankful that it let go when it did and when I was driving.

Is there any problem using an OEM style line on one wheel and leaving the braided on the others, as long as I check them? The other ones don't show any signs of wear, thankfully.
 

AREA 91

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I have 3 sets of braded lines. No problems, yet.
2 Russells
1 Earl's
 

gmorrell

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I'm glad I bought Russell's.
Wrong response, Grasshopper.

Do you implicitly trust that Russell made these lines to not contact anything, irrespective of what you may have done to your car, like different calipers, larger/smaller/wider wheels, different line routing, etc, something that Russell didn't test for, assuming they tested anything at all?

If you didn't do your post-installation homework like I described a few posts up, you may be ripe for a failure.

People, the braking and steering are the two most mission-critical systems on your automobile. When you start mucking around with aftermarket parts, it's your responsibility to make sure that the parts you've installed are safe and effective. And don't start throwing around the "My SS braided lines are DOT Approved."' Big whoop...got some news for you, most aftermarket braided SS lines cannot pass the DOT whip test per FMVSS106. I don't care if your swoopy brake lines were fabricated by God Himself, are Pope Approved and have the Good Housekeeping Seal, if you didn't check them for interference and rub, it's your ass on the line.

Think about this people, you're driving your madd-tyte, highly modified SHO out on the public roads, an aftermarket SS braided brake line pops and you sail through an intersection and broadside another vehicle, severely injuring or killing an occupant of that vehicle. The accident reconstruction team discovers that your brakes failed because you modified your car with non-OEM parts. Now the lawyers for the injured/deceased get involved, and it gets really ugly. Savor this moment, because from here-on out, your life, as you knew it, is over. You will spend the rest of your days financially regretting that you didn't die in that accident.
 
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yamahaSHO

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I know someone else who just recently had a simultaneous failure of both front braided brake lines on a SHO.

We determined that when he had his wheels re-balanced recently, the tech added weight on the inside rim edges with clip-on weights. These spinning chunks contacted the braid when the wheel reached a certain turning angle and wore little patches through the braid, which allowed the inner Teflon liner to fail. He blew through an intersection and hit a curb, and luckily hit no one else.

Words of caution on these lines: Unless you 100% trust the people who made your lines to fit correctly and not contact anything, you need to remove the suspension spring, disconnect the anti-roll bar link, mount the wheel, and then move the suspension through its full range of bump, rebound, and turning angle, in as many combinations as you can think of to ensure that there is no contact between these lines and any moving or stationary parts.

Keep in mind that lines that don't contact anything with 6 or 7" wide wheels will probably contact with 8" wide wheels.

Additionally, every time you have a wheel off, you need to thoroughly inspect these lines for any signs of damage, wear, or kinking. If a line is damaged, stop driving the car NOW.

OEM flex lines can take a lot of abuse and not fail, this is not the case for aftermarket braided SS lines, just a few wires of braid can fail and these lines will blow right out. In professional racing, SS braided lines are considered wear parts, and are replaced frequently, often every race.

Beat me to it Gary.

I have Earl's with Cobra brakes and 17x7" wheels (235/45) and haven't had any issues. I DO inspect them regularly and do still have the spring in place. Are you saying to remove the spring for testing?

BTW, I saw the damage pictures to the lines, what was the damage to the car?
 

hawkeye18

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Am I the only one that runs BF Goodrich lines on my car? Not that this has a whole lot to do with this thread, but... if it helps, I do inspect the lines every time they're off...
 

Zap

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You know, the interesting thing is that this car has the '96 brake upgrade, so actually you could say it isn't the same as the originally equipped car that was likely tested.

The irony is that the stainless lines seem to have this mystique surrounding them that somehow they are safer or more durable, if nothing else due to the improved braking performance, when it appears now that really isn't the case. It seems like it would take a lot more damage to affect a stock hose, and you can't argue with the fact that when the stock hose fails, it usually sticks the brake. As an engineer I can really appreciate when things are intended to fail in a non-catastrophic manner. Granted, if they are frequently inspected the stainless lines should be okay, but I wonder how rapidly one could be damaged and go from proper operation to horrific accident about to happen.
 
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yamahaSHO

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I heard about some strut and possible subframe damage/bending, and some wheel bending, but that's all I know.

Gary M.

Ouch. I'll have to give him a call soon. I can see a hand brake being helpful in this situation. I find it easier to grab versus going for the foot pedal in an emergency situation.
 
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