SS Stage 1's vs SN Plus 20's Cams

[jon93]

What are the differences?? Please politely correct me if I am wrong.

I know they have different lifts and durations.

I have heard the shoshop stage 1's loose less torque down low.

I have heard shoshop stage 1's gain 15hp. Is that at the wheel or crank?

How much power do the plus 20's make compared to the stage 1's?

 

[SeanMc]

All numbers are crank. SHOShop ones seem to lose very little down low, while the SHONut ones, while making more power, seem to lose torque throughout the powerband.

 

[yamahaSHO]

You have to factor in what else has been done to the car. You can't give a blanket statement of 15hp gain for something like this.

When still NA, I had stage 1 cams, along with other intake mods and gained something like 30whp (on a bad tune). If I had to do it all over again, I would skip the cams. It a lot of work and money for minimal gain. Put that money toward boost or N2O. N2O would be cheaper, easier, and FASTER.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

You have to factor in what else has been done to the car. You can't give a blanket statement of 15hp gain for something like this.

When still NA, I had stage 1 cams, along with other intake mods and gained something like 30whp (on a bad tune). If I had to do it all over again, I would skip the cams. It a lot of work and money for minimal gain. Put that money toward boost or N2O. N2O would be cheaper, easier, and FASTER.

but the power isn't there all the time (although probably 2-3 times as much for a short blast), I'd rather have cams then N2O, so when I stomp on it I have the power every time, plus N2O while cheap at first can get VERY expensive VERY fast.

I vote for getting both:woo-hoo:

 

[SASHO91]

Ditto.
I'd rather have the extra 30whp then a temporary 55-75chp. And this is coming from a guy who has run atleast 60-70lbs of a 100shot. It's great for the time it's there, but when it's gone, you REALLY notice it.

But boost on the other hand, now that's a whole different ball game.

I've been thinking about holding off on boosting the car and buying some stage 1 cams. Even if I only got 15whp, I think that would please me for awhile. The problem though, is that you get used to the power and demand more. So..... in reality, going straight to boost is the most logical solution....



EDIT: I've also spent enough on nitrous to buy two sets of cams....

 

[93rev2sev]

SHOShop ones seem to lose very little down low, while the SHONut ones, while making more power, seem to lose torque throughout the powerband.

You cannot lose torque "throughout the powerband" and make more peak power since power is derived from torque. Less torque=less power at any given RPM.

Here's a few different examples:

If you raise torque at 6000RPM (or any other RPM) without losing torque at other RPMs, then you've raised your power output.
win!

If you raise torque at that same 6000RPM but you lost the same amount of torque at 2000 RPM
win!

If you raise torque below 4000RPM but lose torque above 6500RPM
meh. but good luck with that in a smallish displacement 60° V6...

If you raise torque at 2000RPM but lose torque above 5000RPM
fail


The goal for any performance cam selection is to "borrow" torque from places on the powerband that you don't really use....to that end, I consider torque below 3500RPM as "expendible" in these cars.

Put as many specs as you can find into "desktop dyno" and try all 3 cam profiles. Note where they "borrow" their power from and base your descision on that.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

You cannot lose torque "throughout the powerband" and make more peak power since power is derived from torque. Less torque=less power at any given RPM.

Here's a few different examples:

If you raise torque at 6000RPM (or any other RPM) without losing torque at other RPMs, then you've raised your power output.
win!

If you raise torque at that same 6000RPM but you lost the same amount of torque at 2000 RPM
win!

If you raise torque below 4000RPM but lose torque above 6500RPM
meh. but good luck with that in a smallish displacement 60° V6...

If you raise torque at 2000RPM but lose torque above 5000RPM
fail


The goal for any performance cam selection is to "borrow" torque from places on the powerband that you don't really use....to that end, I consider torque below 3500RPM as "expendible" in these cars.

Put as many specs as you can find into "desktop dyno" and try all 3 cam profiles. Note where they "borrow" their power from and base your descision on that.

Well put.

Jon if you want I think I have all the SHO cams already speced out in desktop dyno, I went through this when deciding on my stage 2's

 

[TRicker]

put a vortech on the sho lol. there's plenty of room. just relocate the battery.

this is a common argument with our contour SVT club. everyone wants the "full 3L engine" instead of putting the SVT cams and intake manifolds on it. the power falls off above 6700 on the 3L cams.

SVT cams have been run up to 8000 rpm and won't fall off on the dyno sheet.

cams are the way to go on a small displacement v6.

take consideration to this. once your out of first gear, if you are running to redline, your rpm won't even drop below say..... (i can't remember what my sho was like) 4500 rpm? so your powerband is most critical from 4500-8000 rpm. who cares about bottom end power. it just creates wheelspin in your FWD car on launches. my .02


oh and my SHO had the following:

Shoshop Y pipe
Dynomax catback exhaust
Centerforce clutch
Aluminum flywheel
Shoshop big bore butterflies
Hand ported end tanks (to match the butterflies)
Half shafted throttle body
75mm MAF, custom 3" intake w/ K&N filter
Tokiko struts
eibach springs,
235/45/17" tires on cobra wheels.


it hooked, it went, and it was fairly fast for the mileage it had. a little boost or nitrous would have made that car really fun. cams are worth it, but they are expensive, and hard to install unless the engine is out of the car.

 

[yamahaSHO]

but the power isn't there all the time (although probably 2-3 times as much for a short blast), I'd rather have cams then N2O, so when I stomp on it I have the power every time, plus N2O while cheap at first can get VERY expensive VERY fast.

I've gone through several sets of cams. For the price and work, they're not worth it, IMHO.

I know N20 isn't on all the time, however, unless he's going to take his DD college car out and drive like a jack-ass all the time, I don't think it really matters. ****, I haven't gotten into anything higher than atmospheric pressure this week.

Ditto.
I'd rather have the extra 30whp then a temporary 55-75chp. And this is coming from a guy who has run atleast 60-70lbs of a 100shot. It's great for the time it's there, but when it's gone, you REALLY notice it.

30whp??? You're not getting 30whp out of just cams, so you'll have to add the cost of the other parts into that equation.

I've been thinking about holding off on boosting the car and buying some stage 1 cams. Even if I only got 15whp, I think that would please me for awhile. The problem though, is that you get used to the power and demand more. So..... in reality, going straight to boost is the most logical solution....

15whp... Is not only going to not be that noticeable, it may put you a FENDER ahead of the next SHO (if you're LUCKY). IMHO, it is a waste of money especially if you're looking to boost. Put the money and time/effort into the boost you'll have much greater output and wouldn't have wasted money and time (have fun tightening those cam caps).


BTDT... It's your car and your money, I can only share my expensive experiences.

put a vortech on the sho lol. there's plenty of room. just relocate the battery.

this is a common argument with our contour SVT club. everyone wants the "full 3L engine" instead of putting the SVT cams and intake manifolds on it. the power falls off above 6700 on the 3L cams.

SVT cams have been run up to 8000 rpm and won't fall off on the dyno sheet.

cams are the way to go on a small displacement v6.

take consideration to this. once your out of first gear, if you are running to redline, your rpm won't even drop below say..... (i can't remember what my sho was like) 4500 rpm? so your powerband is most critical from 4500-8000 rpm. who cares about bottom end power. it just creates wheelspin in your FWD car on launches. my .02


oh and my SHO had the following:

Shoshop Y pipe
Dynomax catback exhaust
Centerforce clutch
Aluminum flywheel
Shoshop big bore butterflies
Hand ported end tanks (to match the butterflies)
Half shafted throttle body
75mm MAF, custom 3" intake w/ K&N filter
Tokiko struts
eibach springs,
235/45/17" tires on cobra wheels.


it hooked, it went, and it was fairly fast for the mileage it had. a little boost or nitrous would have made that car really fun. cams are worth it, but they are expensive, and hard to install unless the engine is out of the car.

This isn't an SVT. In a SHO, 8000 RPM isn't in the 'powerband' unless you've done way, WAY more than cams. I don't know about all of you, but I CARE about bottom end power. It's nice to be in my STREET car and not have to drop it out of 5th to blast past someone.

 

[SASHO91]

Jason, I was just quoting what you said about the 30whp. I know cams themselves won't net 30whp.

 

[SHOGUN88]

Jason, I was just quoting what you said about the 30whp. I know cams themselves won't net 30whp.

Does anybody know what plus 40's net or Tri-flows for that matter?

 

[ycode90]

Boost=the only mod an SHO needs.[As far as power goes]Anything else is a waste of money .02 .

 

[jon93]

Boost=the only mod an SHO needs.[As far as power goes]Anything else is a waste of money .02 .

Boost might be the best mod, but most people don't have the resources to do it properly to have a reliable car in the time frame I have. I am building my car for use while I am in school. Example: I don't need to worry about swapping motors during the weekend when I have to write a 30 page paper.

TO EVERYONE REPLYING IN THIS THREAD
I asked a question about cams. Don't trash up my thread with opinions about other modifications that do not have relevance to my questions. I don't want to sound like a dick, but start your own thread.
:thankyou:

 

[yamahaSHO]

In short, they're not worth it... Especially if you don't have the resources to boost, you'll likely have problems with cams. This is your DD... maintain it.

/thread.

 

[sho_sc]

What are the differences?? Please politely correct me if I am wrong.

I know they have different lifts and durations.

I have heard the shoshop stage 1's loose less torque down low.

I have heard shoshop stage 1's gain 15hp. Is that at the wheel or crank?

How much power do the plus 20's make compared to the stage 1's?

and to help answer the question.

I would be careful about the older SHOShop cams. Some folks, of reputable mechanical ability, have reported quality control issues. The offset grinding was not the best in the world and they were all over the place with the shim thickness. With that said, my SHOShop cams are not that way, they are very good.

 

[yamahaSHO]

My original SHO Shop cams were all over the place. I think I have pictures somewhere on another computer... From one lobe to the next, you could EASILY see the difference. I ended up selling them and getting the SHO Shop remakes from what ever company sold them... They were MUCH more accurate.

 

[jon93]

My original SHO Shop cams were all over the place. I think I have pictures somewhere on another computer... From one lobe to the next, you could EASILY see the difference. I ended up selling them and getting the SHO Shop remakes from what ever company sold them... They were MUCH more accurate.

I would not get the original hand regrinds!

Did another company remake SHOshop cams besides SHObros?

 

[LOUDSHO92]

Maybe... Why? :angelnot:

 

[Pro*banshee]

You ARE SHO bros!

 

[jon93]

You ARE SHO bros!

Not anymore...