Some questions about tb and maf location

[somedude_001]

even when my turbo ATX was around 300whp (assumed) it was a Fing BLAST to drive. You don't need to push the boost to a point where you will start breaking things to have fun. I know a thing or two about breaking things and I don't enjoy fixing them anymore. Just my opinion. Either way enjoy your boosted SHO!!!

If I were to do a boosted SHO again I would use a much smaller turbo. After being around the 2.7T audi engine I have come to really enjoy low end power. My turbo ATX did not have that. The mid range and top end were crazy though on high boost.

 

[Toolman]

This shouldn't be a problem with tuning.

Sure thing Doug.

My Lightning MAF and transition hoses was less than $100.

I was comparing new prices to new prices. You can find 05 Mustang mafs with bungs, ready to install in your IC pipe, for less than $100, and straight couplers are much less expensive than transition hoses, so it is a wash really.

There are many ways this can be done properly. A big advantage to the slot-style MAF is being able to get great resolution and higher metering capability in a smaller diameter housing. In many cases, it gets rid of the **** larger point-style MAF's have.

At 325-350 whp, you can run with a lightning 80mm if you want to stay cheap. Personally, I would run it as a DT setup with venting boost back into the turbo inlet.

I can not think of a single advantage to running a DT maf as you describe as compared to a BT. A BT is easier to tune, provides the above advantages you listed, is much more tolerant to air leaks, constitutes less plumbing/less couplers/less wiring, and allows more freedom is choosing a filter location. After having gone both routes, I would never go back to a DT setup, there simply are no advantages.

 

[Toolman]

That's the idea, looking at starting at 300-325whp with ability to tune more boost later. I'm looking at a T3/4 hybrid, 62-1 trim and with a 62-70 ar, it should support anywhere from 300-450whp while maintaining efficiency. So based on that, you think a lightning MAF would work for me?

You will not want to use a LMAF in a BT arrangement, only DT.

My advice, find an 05 mustang slot style maf and go BT. Cost is nearly the same, and the possible issues are much less with a BT than a DT arrangement. If you ever max out the mustang maf, you can always step up to the HPX maf, you simply remove the mustang and drop in the HPX.

BT - cleaner setup, less plumbing, less leak potential, better resolution, better range, easier tuning, better driveability, easier to package your filter.

DT - I can think of no advantages of a DT arrangement.

 

[yamahaSHO]

You will not want to use a LMAF in a BT arrangement, only DT.

It really does work just fine. I've been using one since I boosted the car.

My advice, find an 05 mustang slot style maf and go BT. Cost is nearly the same, and the possible issues are much less with a BT than a DT arrangement. If you ever max out the mustang maf, you can always step up to the HPX maf, you simply remove the mustang and drop in the HPX.

. What is the cost on that?

BT - cleaner setup, less plumbing, less leak potential, better resolution, better range, easier tuning, better driveability, easier to package your filter.

DT - I can think of no advantages of a DT arrangement.

So you're saying there is LESS leak potential by adding more connections on the pressure side of the pipe? Resolution has no bearing on DT vs BT. Tuning works fine either way.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Sure thing Doug.

Fnck you. This is one proper way to run a MAF. Doug tunes around improper fuel setups. My factory boosted car runs exactly this way, as does just about every modern factory boosted car. A competent tuner should have NO problem tuning either way.

I can not think of a single advantage to running a DT maf as you describe as compared to a BT. A BT is easier to tune, provides the above advantages you listed, is much more tolerant to air leaks, constitutes less plumbing/less couplers/less wiring, and allows more freedom is choosing a filter location. After having gone both routes, I would never go back to a DT setup, there simply are no advantages.

There is not real difference in tuning when you compare DT vs BT, period. A BT adds MORE couplers on the pressure side of the pipe, however, you're still going to need about the same couplers whether it's BT or DT. When I ran DT, I had my filter in the exact same spot it is in now. As long as everything is done correctly, it's all a matter of preference.

 

[somedude_001]

from a tuning aspect. boost leaks on a BT setup mean less. the chance of you having a leak in the 10" section between the MAF and TB is minimal. If you have a slot type maf then there are no additional connections in the piping (referring to breaks in the pipe). There is no need to make this a ******* match. both setups work and can produce power. A BT setup is easier to setup on these cars plain and simple.

After using a 90mm lightning maf on a BT setup I strongly encourage you NOT to use it. The plastic housing flexes in such a way to encourage the charge pipes to pop off. I ended up using epoxy to attach my rubber hoses to my maf and only had limited success with that. If you have to use one of these plastic housings I would encourage you to use a DT setup so you don't have the issues blowing pipes that I did. When I had the lincoln maf on I could really crank on my clamps because it was a metal housing on the maf and never had a issue.

 

[yamahaSHO]

I've never blown a coupler off my plastic housing MAF. I realized it was plastic and did not crank down on it like I would with metal.

I can see less connetions if you weld a bung in current piping, provided you have a good straight section to work with. I was looking at the housings they sell which would run the same number of couplers as I have now.

What I'm getting at is they can both be tuned properly run either way, regardless of what actual style of MAF you choose.

 

[whiteguy3]

Slot style is the way to go. You can also grab (from the junkyard if possible, I got one there) a slot style MAF from a Fusion which is the same as most of the mustangs Tim referenced. Much easier setup and much more accurate. I wouldn't waste your time with a 80mm or 90mm lighting MAF.

 

[WSC-SHO]

Slot style is the way to go. You can also grab (from the junkyard if possible, I got one there) a slot style MAF from a Fusion which is the same as most of the mustangs Tim referenced. Much easier setup and much more accurate. I wouldn't waste your time with a 80mm or 90mm lighting MAF.

So it sounds like both can be tuned regardless of style but the slot style is easier?

So then do you all run the MAF in a BT or DT?

 

[Toolman]

What I am getting at is that tuning around a less than ideal setup is not the most efficient thing to do. And, not just in my opinion, but in the opinion of many, a FORD plastic housing 4" MAF designed from the outset to be used strictly as a DRAW THROUGH device is not the IDEAL way to meter FORCED HEATED air in a TURBOCHARGED application. Sure, you can tune it to work, my turbo SHO ran for 50+k miles with that exact setup, but having now switched to a BT arrangement, I would never go back. And I would never encourage anyone else planning a turbo SHO to use a DT setup, when it has ZERO advantage over a BT setup.

It's all cool. And you gotta admit, the earlier reference was pretty funny.

 

[Toolman]

So it sounds like both can be tuned regardless of style but the slot style is easier?

So then do you all run the MAF in a BT or DT?

You keep asking the same question Tim, and my answer will always be the same. Use a BT MAF, the price difference is negligible, and there are ZERO drawbacks. If you can think of one single valid reason to use a DT setup on a turbo SHO, other than it being slightly less expensive due to the abundance of used MAF's out there (a lot of which is because people are ditching BT setups for DT setups), then I will send you, free of charge, a 90mm Lightning MAF, because I have no use for it.

 

[zblackbeast]

You keep asking the same question Tim, and my answer will always be the same. Use a BT MAF, the price difference is negligible, and there are ZERO drawbacks. If you can think of one single valid reason to use a DT setup on a turbo SHO, other than it being slightly less expensive due to the abundance of used MAF's out there (a lot of which is because people are ditching BT setups for DT setups), then I will send you, free of charge, a 90mm Lightning MAF, because I have no use for it.

when i see him tomorrow, ill smack the info into his head for ya!

Thanks for all your thoughts guys, this is all very awesome information

 

[WSC-SHO]

I keep asking the same question because I keep getting different answers. Yes, YOUR answer didn't change...

 

[zblackbeast]

read the text i just sent you!

 

[zblackbeast]

ok, so to recap what I'm getting from this:

BOTH set ups will work, a DTM before the blower is not a BAD thing, just makes initial throttle response tricky to tune as well as the need for extending wires etc..

A BTM is the optimal set up as long as its a metal housing with a "slot style" sensor for better resolution and flow

Moving the throttle body seems to be a waste with no real gains from either so running a vent pre-blower or to the air is an option.

IF you run a DTM pre-blower running a BOV back into the air stream pre-blower, post MAF is the way to go.

All the different configurations can be tuned, some trickier than others to get right, but can be done.

And again to recap.. leave the TB in its stock location; run a made for BTM, MAF, post blower and slot style and vent a BOV into the air? Correct?

Im kind of tired so ill reread the thread tomorrow, but thats what im getting out of everything thus far.. Please, correct me if im wrong.

 

[WSC-SHO]

Okay, here's a different question for you, why not run a MAP sensor? it would read pressure more effectively than a sensor designed to measure air flow...

 

[Sho Amo]

It was pretty funny. I would comment here but I would just be saying what Tim already has.

 

[Sho Amo]

Oh and I keep reading btm as butt-to-mouth lol.

 

[BlackonBlack89]

When ever I mess with the blower car I'm upgrading to the slot style maf. It is SO much cleaner looking and more importantly it keeps the pipes equal diameter and its 4 less chances for boost leak since u get rid of the reducing couplings.

 

[zblackbeast]

That's what I gathered. Ok if/when I get boost a proper slot style btm is mmy choice.