SOLVED: Violent engine shake, snapped exhaust.

[Brett]

I put a spec stage 3 clutch and ceramic T.O.B. in my car awhile back. I live in a small city and i do almost all freeway driving, also i didnt wanna have to replace the clutch again anytime soon and i had planned running a shot of nitrous.

Clutch slipped bad, like half throttle in 4th gear just free revving. also the engine would shift violently for whatever reason. i lost all ambition and let it sit for a couple months. My brother comes up from the army, i told him to take it for a drive. He starts out in 3rd gear thinking its first and smokes my clutch that has 50 miles on it. like literally smoke coming out from under the car.

Now the clutch is grabbing. it was wet out and my tires suck when i drove it last. But i dont think it was slipping at all. climbed a hill full throttle in 4th and couldnt get it to slip as far as i could tell.

At this point im excited, All it would need to be street worthy is a new front driver side caliper, and this fixed:

Now the only way to get moving in 1st without the car violently shaking is ride the **** out of the clutch, or dump it and get a little wheel spin. I tried backing out of my driveway today, i didnt wanna ride the clutch so i tried just letting it engage like you normally would. The whole car shook violently and snapped my exhaust at the resonator.

I know a stage 3 clutch is gonna have an abrupt engagement. But something isnt right, obviously. i completely dropped the subframe out when i replaced the clutch, and put in ASFB. The old bushings were rotted and crumbled out. I didnt bother with motor mounts because the car always shifted very nicely, no rubbing on intake etc, no visible cracks etc.

The only thing i can think of is the subframe is shifting, or the motor mounts are. If the subframe is shifting why? and how would i be able to tell? also is there anyway to tell if the motor mounts are bad without taking them out? If your looking at it with the hood open, How much should the engine lift when you let the clutch engage? My lifts about an inch or so. Any sure way of knowing?

I did search motor mounts but really no info on how to tell if they're bad. just reinforcing and replacement.

I miss shifting gears! it was so nice driving this pile of bolts again, please help. I really have no idea what to look for or where or how to start trouble shooting this.

 

[Not4speed]

Grab the engine and and see if you can move it by hand. If it rocks pretty easily then more than likely it's broke. Another way to tell is by looking at it to see if their are any cracks or chunks missing from it.

Although it sounds more like a trans mount is shot/not bolted down tight enough more than anything else.

Good luck. Mine are in great shape otherwise I would do a write up similar to the one I did for seafoam.

 

[SHOspazz92]

I had a 9-Puck/HD PP setup in my car. Same thing as you stated, You either had to dump it or slip the crap out of it to avoid having the clutch rattle your teeth out from take off. I got used to it after a while and never became an issue. I never broke anything because of it but my car already had reinforced motormounts.

-Sam

 

[Brett]

Grab the engine and and see if you can move it by hand. If it rocks pretty easily then more than likely it's broke. Another way to tell is by looking at it to see if their are any cracks or chunks missing from it.

Although it sounds more like a trans mount is shot/not bolted down tight enough more than anything else.

Good luck. Mine are in great shape otherwise I would do a write up similar to the one I did for seafoam.

Can you get to the transmission mount to inspect it without a whole lot of work? It looked great when i took it out, but maybe its not bolted down tightly like you said.

Also anyone have an idea to tell if the subframe is shifting? Thats really the only thing that changed, the trans and motor mounts were fine before i replaced the clutch.

But like i said i really have no idea what to look for or what to do. I'll definitely check to see if i can move the engine by hand, and the trans mount. Any other advice would appreciated!

 

[LOUDSHO92]

One sign of a broken front mount is a rubbing on the intake.

 

[Brett]

One sign of a broken front mount is a rubbing on the intake.

I didnt bother with motor mounts because the car always shifted very nicely, no rubbing on intake etc, no visible cracks etc.

I painted the intake red and black. so if is rubbing it should be pretty easy to tell. problem is my hood isnt even aligned, i just tightened it down enough to get it to lock into place and go for a drive. ive only driven this thing MAYBE 50 miles and some of that was with the hood off. So this really isnt an option for me, because id need to put on more miles to know and im downright scared to drive it like this. i cant be launching the car at every stop light. but thank you! any advice is always appreciated.

 

[hawkeye18]

If the hood is off, diagnosis is really simple; shift into first and let the clutch out. Does the front of the engine pop up more than about a half inch?

If the hood is on, you can have a helper look for you (make sure you set the parking brake to avoid mowing your friend down).

 

[sperold]

Were there ever any grinding noises?
Is there a chance the clutch disc is in backwards?
Are you loosing any oil that is finding its way onto your flywheel?
Your sub frame has locating pins that keep it aligned.

 

[rubydist]

another easy way to check for broken mm is to put a jack under the oil pan and try to lift the engine about one inch. if one side of the motor wants to go up, mm is bad on that side. if the whole front of the car tries to go up, mm are good

 

[Bob Gervais]

Your sub frame has locating pins that keep it aligned.

Huh??

My own opinion, this is the "Stage 3 too aggressive clutch" syndrome, possibly combined with a bad motor mount or two.

 

[zach44102]

For heavily modified street and race engines. Offers a comfortable pedal feel and quick engagement. Offers good wear characteristics under low and high stress usage.
The stage 3 clutch is best for superchargers and turbos. It has a stock feel but will have an abrupt engagement. It is not for daily driving.

nuff said

 

[Ocnaj]

I daily drive a Stage 4 Southbend in my '90 and it feels just fine. That clutch has at least 30 dragstrip runs on it and it still engages fast.

The car has reinforced front and rear motor mounts and also ALSFBs and it really doesn't shake much.

 

[Brett]

nuff said

I knew this would come up. Ive driven plenty of cars with performance clutches, 6 pucks, kevlars, etc. I've driven on this exact same clutch kit in a boosted integra numerous times with stock MMs. The engagement is abrupt. My car is a whole different level. Its not like it shakes hard once then its in reverse and im good to go. I put it in reverse, let out the clutch, and it ****** violenty 3 or 4 times before the exhaust came apart and i pushed the clutch back in. As mentioned i can start out in first only because im dumping the clutch, or riding the **** out of it. Not going to drop the clutch in reverse to get moving. Nor should i have to.

Your sub frame has locating pins that keep it aligned.

That i get, im thinking maybe the aluminum bushings when fully tightened down are grabbing the subframe, allowing it to rock up and down not side to side. i dont know how likely that is. we'll see what happens tomorrow or weds. I'm working 12 hr over night shifts as of now.


Thanks for the advice everyone. im gonna get under it Wednesday and see if i cant move the engine around. Maybe i just need to reinforce the mounts period. I'll also check on the trans mount. Its not leaking any oil. I just hope to god i didnt install the disc backwards or something of that sort. I'll get back to you all soon.

 

[walser]

is there any way that the flywheel could have gotten warped from your brother burning the **** out of the clutch? I know in my friends LT1 camaro he warped his and you can only feel it when you let it out slowly. but if sam said its normal? check your MMs

 

[Brett]

is there any way that the flywheel could have gotten warped from your brother burning the **** out of the clutch? I know in my friends LT1 camaro he warped his and you can only feel it when you let it out slowly. but if sam said its normal? check your MMs

Doubtful. I had the flywheel resurfaced at a shop before installing it. The car has been doing this since the first time i let the clutch pedal out, about 30-50 miles prior to my brother burning it.

 

[Brett]

So jacked the car up today. one sub frame bolt was so loose i could moving the bushing with my finger about a half inch to an inch. (I know, im a *****) I cant exactly recall because alot of people helped with this car, but i think the subframe bolts were impacted on, and obviously not tight enough. heres a video of the engine before:

video of engine rocking

After i tightened up the subframe bolts it drives considerably better. but i still jacked up the engine on the oil pan. it lifted alot. it looks like the rear mount is seperating.

You can see how high up the DIS is from the battery and where it'd normally sit. The thing is tho its not like the front or back of the engine lifted, it was more like the passenger side did, the side where the pulleys are.

So looks like with some reinforced mounts and a subframe securely in place i might actually be able to drive this thing.

 

[Bob Gervais]

Nice documentation with the video! That'll make a great reference when other members want to see what bad motor mounts will do.

Nice work on finding the issues also, good luck with the repairs!

 

[Brett]

Nice documentation with the video! That'll make a great reference when other members want to see what bad motor mounts will do.

Nice work on finding the issues also, good luck with the repairs!

I thought i should follow up and let you all know what went down.

Put the car on stands, pulled off the wheel and the splash shield. Jacked up the engine with a piece of wood between jack and oil pan. First thing we did was pull the front motor mount. Used an impact with some extensions and the bolts zipped right out. In all fairness they were taken out when i pulled the engine so they werent rusted. Got the front mount out and it looked like this:

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Pretty nice size tear, so off to the local hardware store for some bolts to reinforce it. Finished reinforcing the front mount (forgot to take pics). We put the front mount back in and started on the rear.

It was kind of tricky getting to the bolts in the rear motor mount. We used some extensions and an elbow so we could use the impact. People seem to act like the rear is harder then the front (from what ive heard anyway). The bolts were a bit tricky to get to, but fighting the mount itself in and out from between the subframe and engine was alot easier in the rear then the front. So if you've done your front do be afraid to do the rear! Honestly i didnt find it to be a "fight" to get either the front or rear mount out. altho i did take off the lower rad hose for the front. Anyways. Heres how the rear looked:

Click me for video!

The rear was COMPLETELY torn. Only thing holding it was the safety bar. These mounts were fine when i put them in, or looked it anyway. this is what switching from crumbled old subframe mounts to aluminum did. Shoved some bolts thru the rear mount, and put it back in.

I wasnt able to really drive as the exhaust is still broken and its late. But guess what? I can use reverse now! :woo-hoo: I popped the hood and watched as the clutch engaged and it doesnt move at all lol.

Would i rather have gone with reinforced mounts that were done with urethane so the vibration would be kept down? Absolutely, but this costed me 20 dollars.

I hope this helps anyone who is trying to diagnose their problem. Good luck!

EDIT: pics of the reinforced rear mount. Its not the prettiest but it works just fine. No didint bother to clean it up, this is by NO means a show car, its from minnesota.

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[/IMG]

 

[TYSHO]

You need to stop drinking, that license plate is in the wrong place!

 

[Ishodu]

Good job, Thanks for posting the vid like Bob said it will make great reference for the the future.