SHO died, PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

[DJ SHO]

Here's an update...

Checked the timing. Everything's lined up. Belt is good, no tooth jumpage, etc.

Turning the motor by hand showed no signs of any cam related trouble, valves, etc. I hope...

Disconnected the y-pipe from the motor to see if that was the culprit. Still wouldn't start, but the motor turned over much much easier, and smoother. It was very hard to turn over before (when they were connected), and very uneven sounding. I am going to fully remove the y-pipe tomorrow and inspect it, perhaps gut it. I think this was my upper end horsepower problem, the one that I noticed first.

I've got fuel. I know for sure because the pump is fairly new, the filter is new, and my plugs are covered in gas.

So that leads me to believe the problem must be igniton related. Tried a known working DIS module (properly grounded, all we did was swap crossover tubes) and still nothing. So that leads me to one of two things, the coilpack or the CPS (although there was never any sudden shut-off symptoms related to CPS failure, and it did want to fire today when I turned it over).

Any ideas? I'm probably gonna take the coilpack and get it tested tomorrow just to see. I can't think of anything else that would cause my no starting/poor running problem. Any new thoughts guys?

<small>[ July 07, 2003, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: DJ SHO ]</small>

 

[Bizzy]

DJ SHO:
If it was a clogged cat, wouldn't it happen over time? I haven't noticed any dip in power unitil the other night, when this all happened? It was sudden.

No. It would depend on how big of a chunk is clogging your pipe or cat up. Just as an example, my cat was broken recently and today I was driving it to the shop to have the cat replaced. I knew there were marble sized pieces rattling around inside because I could hear them at times at idle. At first I didn't have any sputter or any indication that the cat was broken inside except for the rattling sound.

When I gave the car more gas when I took off at a light, I immediately felt a loss of power, the car tried to die and I heard the typical "shhhhhhhhhhhhhh" sound from the cat. I gave it more gas and it apparently blew out with a loud "BANG" akin to a backfire.

I have no real technical knowledge to offer you DJ...wish I did. But don't rule out the cat as the culprit as the symptoms sound much like what I experienced just this morning. Crack the case of the cat with a broom stick or your palm a couple of times. If there are big enough pieces in there you'll hear them rattle around. By now they may be lodged in your y-pipe....or in your mufflers so you may not hear any rattle. If not, do the trick that I read about here once, put a shop vac that you can reverse the motor to blow out and blow air through the catback and out your tips. Feel the air coming out both tips, if it's even and strong out both tips, then you likely have no obstruction. Oh, and don't put your face down there when you turn the shop vac on.

That's the best advice I can give you. frown

 

[DJ SHO]

And oh yeah, found out what the leak was...my damn CV Boot is leaking! headbang headbang headbang

 

[AutoSHO]

When you were trying to start it after dropping the Y-pipe, did you hold the gas all the way open? From the sounds of it the car was pretty badly flooded and probably wouldn't have started without a little time to clear everything out.

 

[SHOTerror]

I dont' know why, but computer keeps popping in my mind, it sounds like the computer is taking a crap.. Have a spare computer you can throw in to try? It seems ignition related as gas is just fludded up in there.. it really does seem ignition related. So my thoughts are, 1. Coil Pack, 2. Computer, 3. DIS module. Swap these items out my bet it is one of these. I do not think it is the CPS.

 

[DJ SHO]

AutoSHO:
When you were trying to start it after dropping the Y-pipe, did you hold the gas all the way open? From the sounds of it the car was pretty badly flooded and probably wouldn't have started without a little time to clear everything out.

Yeah, I cut off the fuel injectors for a few minutes of cranking to make sure there wasn't tons of gas in there. Then I tried it with the cats off. Turned over much better, and there were a couple instances that it wanted to fire. It even sounded like it caught for halfa second with only a short crank time once. Still gotta dig into the other possible causes tomorrow morning.

 

[TYSHO]

DJ, take a breath. The CV boot(s) are not that hard as it seems. You can get the boot with the clips and grease for $7.59 at O'Reilly's with the lifetime warranty. Just be sure to have the proper tools or other things can happen. I'm supposing you only need the boot and grease as you never mentioned any popping or any sort from it. I replaced mine without the correct tools and took 4 hours for one and it should've only took no longer than an hour to and hour and a half. Most of the time was thinking of what to do and all 35 or 36 little bearings falling off as a slip on bearing type deal came off and luckly not all 3 as only 1 did. headbang Good Luck though.

<small>[ July 08, 2003, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: TYSHO ]</small>

 

[AutoSHO]

Very weird indeed. Especially the symptoms you noted just before it quit completely.

I would pull the crank damper off just to make sure the timing gear key didn't shear or anything like that. Have you checked fuel pressure by any chance?

 

[TYSHO]

This just popped in mind, maybe the Camshaft sensor? shrug

 

[DJ SHO]

AutoSHO:
I would pull the crank damper off just to make sure the timing gear key didn't shear or anything like that. Have you checked fuel pressure by any chance?

I haven't checked the pressure witha gauge, but SLOSHO checked the shrader valve and all is well, I guess.

I am adding pulling the crank damper to the list of things to do tomorrow, just to double check the timing scenario.

 

[Mike Kopstain]

I got a couple options for you.

First, get a vacuum gauge on the car and then get it running. If there are any pulsations you are in trouble.

Second, have a look at the oil dispstick for bubbles and a look at the radiator for brownish coolant.

Also, get a compression gauge and get readings for each cylinder. Me thinks one will be low.

That leak seems a little to conveniently timed for me and I'm surprised to see everyone write it off so quick.

My initial thought is a head gasket problem. It's obviously a guess, but given the nature of the failure I think it holds some foundation.

Your second area to look at is the physical drivetrain. It's rare, very rare, but a snapped cam is possible. It happened to me. You want to make sure the cams are lined up to the crank and to eachother. If one snapped, it did so most likely at the bearing or under it, so it may be hard to spot. Just make sure that the tappets for each cylinder are at the same height.

Crank cancer would not manifest itself so quick. It happens over time. You couldn't wear the woodruff key and keyway that quick even if you had the crank bolt off.

<small>[ July 08, 2003, 01:47 AM: Message edited by: Mikeys_Taurus ]</small>

 

[masho95]

You said no codes? I'm assuming you got 111 then. I've seen CMP sensors go bad without throwing a code, but the symptoms you're showings don't quite coincide with a bad CMP sensor. Double check your electrical connections. Then check for fuel (with a fuel pressure gauge if you can round one up), and spark. How old are those spark plug wires?

 

[DJ SHO]

well, as for no codes, the only one was 111.

Mike, thanks for the input, but if you're assuming I blew a head gasket you might have passed the post I made about what that leak actually was. And I thought u said u read it all? wink

The leak was my cv boot. And now, I don't think it's possible that a cam snapped, if I'm able to push start the car and when it gets to 4k rpms, the car gets all it's power back. Wouldn't happen if there was a busted cam sprocket.

<small>[ July 08, 2003, 03:48 AM: Message edited by: DJ SHO ]</small>

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Deeeeeeerrrrrrrrr! I read that someone thought it was that and then skipped a bunch.

 

[DJ SHO]

Would the knock sensor matter in this case, seeing it messes with the timing?

<small>[ July 08, 2003, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: DJ SHO ]</small>

 

[MeShoHorny]

No, knock sensor would not account for a no-start. I guess if it went bad it could retard your timing at higher rpm's- never heard of this on an SHO.

When you disconnected the y-pipe did you drop it fully down- blowing directly out your mani's? I might have missed it but did you verify spark? If so how did you go about doing it? What is the fuel pressure during cranking?

When you converted to a digital dash did you hack any ignition wiring?

 

[DJ SHO]

The digidash has been in and working fine for almost 2 weeks now. There was nothing involved in the inition wiring with it.

UPDATE 2:

Pulled the plugs last night. There are all fouled out and full of gas. I checked the coil pack for resistance levels and everything checks out ok, all three coils have the same resistance.

Timing is right. There is no play in the crank pully gear at all. Timing belt is in good shape and is tensioned correctly.

Since the intake is off I'm in the process of cleaning it thoroughly. It was pretty bad. Hey couldn't help to clean it right? I know it's dirty condition has nothing to do with my problems, but it was off, therefore, it's getting cleaned for the first time.

Used a shopvac and vaccumed out all the cylinders through the spark plug wells and through the intake ports. Sucked up what was left of the unburned gas and carbon in the process. Proably wasn't tons of gas in there, but it was a good idea to suck out any leftover.

Still have to inspect the y-pipe, will do that in few hours or so. Getting new plugs tomorrow and will put everything back together tomorrow.

This my final analysis. Y-pipe had something to do with this problem, as well as poor grounds to the battery. Both terminals on the battery were loose I found out. perhaps it played some mind games with the computer or DIS module, causing a severe rich fuel mixture, poor spark, which in turn fouled out my plugs. And the y-pipe probably is responsible for the low power at high rpms, which probably started this whole mess.

Like I said, I still have to inspect the y-pipe, so that question is still up in the air.

Any of this make sense to anyone?

<small>[ July 08, 2003, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: DJ SHO ]</small>

 

[Bizzy]

well if you need a computer let me know. I have 2 good x2j's sitting here. Also I have a compression gauge and I would seriously check the compresion like mike said. umm the vac gauge would help out too in trying to diagnose

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

bad battery cables caused my temp gauge to go whacky this past february. anything is possible i suppose.

 

[DJ SHO]

Problem Solved!

There's two people out there that can say to me "I told you so" and those two are Kirk and Fred.

So what was the problem that caused this whole catastprophe? Bad Catalytic converters. After changing the plugs, cleaning out the motor, and de-carboning (is that even a word?) the entire intake, I tired to fire her up. She wanted to but jsut couldn't. So I had SLOSHO push start me again, and it was the same deal as before - running rough and stumbling to get up to 4k revs. Finally got it up there and she broke loose again. Hit second gear, seemed like the roughness cleared up a little. Drove it around the block a little bit, hammering the **** out of it (5-6k on the digital tach). Limped it home. Waited a couple minutes and checked to see what was steaming under the hood. Just a small coolant line for the throttle body I forgot to hook up (oops!). Adam said, try and start it. I turn the key and it started right up. I was so confused I shut it off eek! . Did it again. Fired right up. So a little while later I pulled it in the garage to tighten up the y-pipe - horrible leak up front. So I tighten it up, start it back up, and let it run for a few minutes. It was running, but a little rough. ADam looks down and the rear cat was glowing bright red. So we shut her down. Well, there's the problem. Damn converters. Must have broke it loose a bit in there when I drove it today. Good thing it did, or I'd still be puzzled about this rough running condition.

So now I have to customize my y-pipe, so to speak, and get those bastard converters off of there. I also have to take care of that leaking CV boot. It's leaking really bad. It's the inner one so it looks like I have to pull the whole half shaft. Found a repair boot kit for 10 bucks @ Advance, and it's the full boot, not the split.

<small>[ July 10, 2003, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: DJ SHO ]</small>