Shelby Cobra GT500

[thebigjimsho]

Hooray for you. I hate unions myself. But I hate automatics more. So if Ford ever makes a sedan worth a damn with a manual shift, maybe I'll buy one. At least GM knows how to still make cars properly...

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

AMEN... I have had almost as many sticks as Autos... but in traffic down here, shifting becomes irritating.(Also- old age (started medicare!) had something to do with it). So... I sent my last stick up north and Son bought it. 2004 Yellow GTO that only had 12K last spring when he got it. He also has another Red 2004 GTO that is his DD. Ford's issue with sedans is that they're all FWD platforms that have been adapted to occasional AWD use. Most GM platforms are also that way, except for the Caddy CTS, Holdens, and the new small Buick at this time. Think it's done mostly for room, but agree we need the manual option, or a dual clutch auto-stick.

Ford does have some great coupes with sticks. Lighter & equally fast as GM offerings.

 

[RonPorter]

My Lincoln. As in Town Car.


http://www.factcheck.org/2011/09/ford-motor-co-does-u-turn-on-bailouts/

So it may not be a "bailout" in the strictest sense. But in crunchtime, they needed a loan. And got it...

Yes, it's not a "bailout" in ANY sense.

They borrowed money. And got it from wherever they get their best deal. It's called good business.

Not a bailout.

And no, I will not ever buy a new GM product. Ever again. The whole deal smelled, and still stinks with GM. Sorry, there is a huge difference between GM/Chrysler and Ford in the whole mess.

 

[RonPorter]

FORD DID NOT TAKE BAILOUT MONEY!!!!

And.. all the American Automakers, including Ford, had no guts to stand up to the UAW like John Deere & Caterpillar. Deere obtained a 2 tier contract in 1998, with Cat following closely. They are very healthy, profitable multi-national companies because of that decision. What upsets me about GM Bankruptcy was how the Union ended up with stock in the company, and how they were not penalized, instead keeping their entire pensions and insurance benefits. The management, most of which had no part of top management's failures at negotiation, and other short sighted policies, lost both their pensions and health care. Bankruptcy plan was set up before the bankruptcy took place, and was developed by the current Presidential Administration, and benefited his constituency at the expense of all white collar non-union employees.

What STILL frosts me about that deal is that Nobama & his cronies GAVE the UAW the shares, and totally shafted the Bondholders with $.10 on a $1.00.

That was BEYOND inexcusable, in my mind. That was the day the GM was FOREVER off my list for ANY new products.

 

[RonPorter]

Hooray for you. I hate unions myself. But I hate automatics more. So if Ford ever makes a sedan worth a damn with a manual shift, maybe I'll buy one. At least GM knows how to still make cars properly...

Oh, cop out & throw a Chevy engine into a Cadillac, and ask Cadillac prices? Yeah, "engineering at it's finest". Guess they couldn't engineer a Northstar for power. Or figured their customers wouldn't care.

Although, they gave it a decent try with the 4.4 blown Northstar in the STS for a coupla years.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

My John Deere friend, who was VP of IR & the creator of the 2 tier contract, with the help of his UAW counterpart, agrees with you fully.

And... why it was so pleasurable to have beaten that 2012 Corvette GS, even if he didn't know how to drive it!

 

[thebigjimsho]

Oh, cop out & throw a Chevy engine into a Cadillac, and ask Cadillac prices? Yeah, "engineering at it's finest". Guess they couldn't engineer a Northstar for power. Or figured their customers wouldn't care.

Although, they gave it a decent try with the 4.4 blown Northstar in the STS for a coupla years.

That's a nice argument, in theory.

The fact is, even though it may be Chevy powered(not the V2 since the LSA was unique to the Caddy), the CTS-V is a bargain any way you look at it. Sure, it's Cadillac priced, but when you get 100% of the performance(105% in the V2) for 60-70% of the price, it's worth it. You get most of the features and luxuries of the $100G+ M5 and E63. And you get a better ride and better handling. It also sits atop one of the best chassis in the segment.

And when the stretched Alpha platform underpins the even larger next Gen CTS, it will be lighter.



No matter what you say about GM, they cater to those who want efficiency AND those who want comfort AND those who want performance, in which ever way they choose. Every performance car they make has a manual option. Ford doesn't even come close.

If you want to trash GM for their business ethics, go right ahead. You want to come up with lame-ass arguments against their cars? Keep reaching. Or replace those rose colored glasses...

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

CTS needs to be at least 4" bigger in rear seat area. WAY TO SMALL NOW...

 

[nynd]

Not that I'm a fan of GM but I too own a CTS-V and can echo bigjim's comments. It definitely is a bang for the buck no matter how you cut it. The car wasn't really designed to be a full size sedan like the SHO so yes, the rear seats maybe a little tight but when you look at the market the car was designed for, I think it hits the nail on the head. a 556HP sedan, coupe or wagon and your choice of manual or auto. The engine is a proven power plant so why re-invent. They give you awesome brembo's all around and for the entire package, its a hit.

When you think of what Ford has in that category, there is really nothing. No high horsepower sedan that can act like a great daily driver. The SHO is probably the nicer sporty looking sedan with the roomy interior but no way is a true sports sedan. Its all market demand - there is always a segment for everything... remember the AZTEC.. lol!

 

[RonPorter]

If you want to trash GM for their business ethics, go right ahead. You want to come up with lame-ass arguments against their cars? Keep reaching. Or replace those rose colored glasses...

And the Nobama/GM business practices are what frost me, and is why, regardless of WHAT they come up with, I won't buy it. Considering dropping the GM Mastercard with all the "GM Points" I'll never use.....

Not "lame-ass" arguments. My opinion, and a valid argument for GM doing a backyard SB Chevy V8 that hotrodders have been doing for years...and not engineering properly. You like it? Fine. I don't, and a CTS-V has never been a consideration for me for that very reason.

For the $$$, there's a bunch of cars I would consider first. but, that's me......

 

[Scrming]

If you want to trash GM for their business ethics, go right ahead. You want to come up with lame-ass arguments against their cars? Keep reaching. Or replace those rose colored glasses...

Well, this is a FORD site.... LOL

 

[thebigjimsho]

And the Nobama/GM business practices are what frost me, and is why, regardless of WHAT they come up with, I won't buy it. Considering dropping the GM Mastercard with all the "GM Points" I'll never use.....

Not "lame-ass" arguments. My opinion, and a valid argument for GM doing a backyard SB Chevy V8 that hotrodders have been doing for years...and not engineering properly. You like it? Fine. I don't, and a CTS-V has never been a consideration for me for that very reason.

For the $$$, there's a bunch of cars I would consider first. but, that's me......

Your opinions are your opinions. We all have opinions and values and make decisions on such.

This is a forum and a way to disclose such opinions. Sometimes friendships be damned. I like your cars. And even if I didn't, I'd show some restraint and tact on what I'd say.

That's all I've got to say...

 

[thebigjimsho]

Well, this is a FORD site.... LOL

Yeah, I see you're new. Many will argue this is a Ford site. However, Ford corporate has had to come and, through lawyers, restrict different things in this site.

This is an SHO enthusiasts site. The original SHO was a gamechanger and brought enthusiasts from all sorts. GM fans, Chrysler fans, Ford fans, foreign marque fans, RWD fans, hot rod fans...

Since you're new, and in the Gen 4 forums, you'll never understand what the original SHO was, or meant, to the automotive world. The Taurus chassis was nothing great. That Yamaha motor meant everything. And in an MTX setup.


So LOL right back at you...

 

[RonPorter]

Your opinions are your opinions. We all have opinions and values and make decisions on such.

This is a forum and a way to disclose such opinions. Sometimes friendships be damned. I like your cars. And even if I didn't, I'd show some restraint and tact on what I'd say.

That's all I've got to say...

You're right. It's a forum, and we all have opinions.

It's your $$$ buy what you like. I have caught crap over the years for what I have bought, but fvckem. I work with guys who feel that Moses brought the Duramax down from the mountain.....

I have had this opinion on the CTS-V since it first came out. You like it, fine! Enjoy it.

I have owned two Vettes. Don't know what brain injury I suffered when I bought the 2nd one (a new one) after swearing to never buy another. Won't do THAT again!!

Whatever. I just have a serious problem with GM and the way the whole bailout was handled. I don't see my opinion of that EVER changing........

 

[Scrming]

Yeah, I see you're new. Many will argue this is a Ford site. However, Ford corporate has had to come and, through lawyers, restrict different things in this site.

This is an SHO enthusiasts site. The original SHO was a gamechanger and brought enthusiasts from all sorts. GM fans, Chrysler fans, Ford fans, foreign marque fans, RWD fans, hot rod fans...

Since you're new, and in the Gen 4 forums, you'll never understand what the original SHO was, or meant, to the automotive world. The Taurus chassis was nothing great. That Yamaha motor meant everything. And in an MTX setup.


So LOL right back at you...

I know nothing??? Jumping to conclusions... My roommate was a Ford engineer and we had more than one M-plate first gen SHO in our driveway... And I heard all about the SHO and the Yamaha engine... so perhaps I don't understand as much as you, but I certainly remember tearing up the streets in East Detroit, back when it was East Detroit, NOT East Pointe..

And by Ford site I meant in general... why would anyone expect a lot of GM love here? LOL!

 

[RonPorter]

I know nothing??? Jumping to conclusions... My roommate was a Ford engineer and we had more than one M-plate first gen SHO in our driveway... And I heard all about the SHO and the Yamaha engine... so perhaps I don't understand as much as you, but I certainly remember tearing up the streets in East Detroit, back when it was East Detroit, NOT East Pointe..

And by Ford site I meant in general... why would anyone expect a lot of GM love here? LOL!

You moved from East Detroit (yeah, I still call it that!) to Saginaw???? :shakehead

 

[thebigjimsho]

I know nothing??? Jumping to conclusions... My roommate was a Ford engineer and we had more than one M-plate first gen SHO in our driveway... And I heard all about the SHO and the Yamaha engine... so perhaps I don't understand as much as you, but I certainly remember tearing up the streets in East Detroit, back when it was East Detroit, NOT East Pointe..

And by Ford site I meant in general... why would anyone expect a lot of GM love here? LOL!

Where did i say you know nothing? Talk about jumping to conclusions. And whether you got to ride along with your buddy or not doesn't open your eyes to the full range of SHO enthusiasts here. Many, many of them being GM fans, like me. So LOL right back at you...

 

[Scrming]

Where did i say you know nothing? Talk about jumping to conclusions. And whether you got to ride along with your buddy or not doesn't open your eyes to the full range of SHO enthusiasts here. Many, many of them being GM fans, like me. So LOL right back at you...

Ok.. you said i would NEVER understand...

"Since you're new, and in the Gen 4 forums, you'll never understand what the original SHO was, or meant, to the automotive world."

 

[Scrming]

You moved from East Detroit (yeah, I still call it that!) to Saginaw???? :shakehead

Technically I moved to Midland... And then I met my wife from Grand Blanc.... we split the difference sort of and we technically live in Saginaw Township, not the city of Saginaw... by are address says Saginaw...

BTW... lived at 8 Mile and Gratiot... WOOHOO! LOL

 

[RonPorter]

Technically I moved to Midland... And then I met my wife from Grand Blanc.... we split the difference sort of and we technically live in Saginaw Township, not the city of Saginaw... by are address says Saginaw...

BTW... lived at 8 Mile and Gratiot... WOOHOO! LOL

I was born & raised on Barlow, between State Fair & 7 Mile, between Hoover & Schoenerr. Buddy of mine is selling his deceased father's house just east of Warren in East Detroit just above Toepfer on Firwood.

Yep, I know the neighborhood!!