Roll Cage Kit - Checking Interest

[shopartsnw]

This is a thread to check interest for a group buy for a roll cage kit. If interest is sufficient, I will organize a group buy with Bizzy and it will get moved to the group buy section.

Here is the story. It seems like a number of people have been interested in roll cage kits, but there are not many suppliers. I know Rickety has built some in the past, but I don't know if they are still making them. I have a roll cage in the Bondurant (as do all the Bondurant owners) that was built by Roush Racing. The Roush roll cage is awesome, but it was built in place and would be tough to mass produce/duplicate.

Fast forward a bit. I recently started working with a guy who makes roll cages for SCCA racing. Right now he makes a Miata and Protege kit, and is starting to branch out. I mentioned the SHO, and he looked at my cars. He does not have a problem making us a kit if there is enough interest to cover the development.

We would need at least five committed people (preferrably 10) to make a go of this group buy. In this thread, I am asking for the level of interest and type of cage desired.

1) What type of cage do you want?

a) Full six point cage that will pass SCCA style tech inspection? (the most difficult part of this install is it would require the dash to be removed/reinstalled to install it correctly).
b) Four point "roll bar" with bars mounting only at the B pillars and rear strut mounts (lets you mount harnesses and cameras, but only has limited roll protection)
c) Some other bar that provides no roll protection but lets you mount an in car camera and racing harnesses.

2) What is your interest

a) Ready to buy
b) On the fence
c) no interest

The builder gave me a price point on the full six point SCCA type cage at about $1000, but all pricing would be refined prior to starting an official group buy.

As with any other aftermarket product, these parts would come with some lengthy worded legal disclaimer holding the manufacturer and seller harmless.

Is there still interest for this product?

- Mike

 

[Toolman]

Couple of questions, not for me specifically, as I have a cage builder, but just for general information. FWIW, if a nice removable 4-point were made, I might be interested in that for a second car.

1)price for a 4 point cage

2)can I add removeable door bars later

3)is this a bolt-in or weld-in

4)rear seat access after install

5)does 6 point cage have door bars, and are the removable

6)shipping

 

[shopartsnw]

Thanks for the questions Tim. This is what I need. The cage builder can do whatever we ask (door bars, or no door bars) etc. So Once I get an idea of what people want I can come up with the specifics of pricing. I too already have a cage, but I know others are having a hard time getting an affordable cage, and I may put one in the blower car.

- Mike

 

[strings1732]

I'm interested but I would want a 4 point roll bar that passes NHRA tech inspection. A roll bar is only good for going so fast and then you need to add door bars. A roll bar is probably more than any SHO will need in the quarter but if not, door bars and such can be added later. The 4 point with a harness bar, would be ideal. full pricing would put me over the fence though

 

[SuperchargedSHOguy]

I'd like a 6 point for my 94 with door bars... the whole nine yards. $1k would be reasonable since I would not have to piece it together from scratch.

 

[NJSHO]

I would be interested in a bolt in 4 or 6 point that would still allow use of the front and back seat with out having to be a contortionist.
Depends on price if I am on the fence or ready to buy. $1k = not ready to buy anytime soon.

 

[coldsho]

im leaning more towards a 4point, i dont have th money for a 6, i would prob add in the etra leter myself, or depending on the price i might build the 4 point myself. $$ is the determining factor at the moment, but i will need a cage by next spring so ill have to make up my mind soon

 

[shopartsnw]

Although there is some interest, it looks like it is in all different flavors.

I can talk with the builder, and maybe we can come up with a 4 point "starter" that can be expanded to make a 6 pointer.

More to come

- Mike

 

[Yamaha V6]

Mike, my thoughts for the current car were this:

Solid B-Pillar Hoop / Harness mount point w/ large 3-hole shoulder mount point tab (allows 2-belt or 1 Y-belt mounting). Camera Mount tab / platform welded in-place between the seats, or offer optional camera-mount ($+100)

Bolt-in to rear seatbelt mount point rear braces. This makes it a 4-point. I don't know about rules for bolt-in points vs. weld in. Remember that the Gen1 & Gen2 rear bars are different - what I did on the Gen 2 Rickety I bought from Bill Mashburn was to fab a thick steel plate 2/ 2 holes to fill the gap. The plates bolted to the hoop & to the rear bars. Optional Halon extinguisher & rear brace mount (+$100 to +$200, depending on size of extinguisher (1lb / 2.5lb, etc).

Bolt in to a to-be-installed floor / sill plate for optional door side-impact protection. The piece would be about 10" off the sill, allowing easier access out, but high enough to help somewhat in a side impact. Additional option on the design is a swing-away for the side bar, for when the door's open (pull pin, push out with door) for ultra-easy access. Side is easily removeable for street use, as are the rear brace points. Rear brace points ideally would come straight up through the seatbelt access slots in the rear seats, so they could be left in-place with the rear seat cushion.

So basically:

Config A: Harness bar with some rollover protection (2-point), street use essentially
Config B: Config A, plus rear bolt-in bars (4-point), Serious Street, basic Driver-Ed days
Config C: Config A & B, plus side door braces, advanced agressive Driver-Ed days.
Config D: Config C welded together, qualifies for whatever sanctioning bodies (more research required to confirm this is allowable).

Include some cheapie floor harness mount bolts with kit, rollbar padding.

To me, target ideal pricing, powdercoated black:
A: $400
B: $650
C: $900

Upgrade path available from A-B-C.

My current interest is, perhaps in the spring (1991). Hope this helps.

 

[SinisterSHO]

Whoa, looks like you've thought this out.

 

[rksc90]

a grand US sounds like a lot, im getting my 4 point done for 400CNd installed, 6 point was 600, thats the going price here (not chromoly) :corn:

 

[Yamaha V6]

I got the 4-point bolt-in for my 911 Cab for around $350 US from memory. Thing is, it's also existing jigs, has probably larger sales volume, etc - this is a new piece and will have development costs, and how many of us idiots out there want roll protection from their Taurus?

 

[shopartsnw]

Fred,

You summarized the options the way I see it too. I will talk to the guy and see what kind of pricing we could get in a "phased" roll cage system. You are right about the jigs and development cost. It is all about that. Yesterday I saw a full 6 point SCCA legal bolt in cage for an RX7 for $200.

Most don't need a roll cage for thier SHO, but I do get a number of looks and questions when I drive the Bondurant to work or the store. Especially since I even retained the window nets and rear seat 5 point harnesses.

I will let you know what he can do on pricing.

- Mike

 

[rksc90]

yea, im saying it might be cheaper just to drive to a chassis shop and ask for a quote first(if there is one close by), I thought they were going to borrow a vehicle and individually form and test fit each piece(so no jig costs)

 

[silversho89]

yea, im saying it might be cheaper just to drive to a chassis shop and ask for a quote first(if there is one close by), I thought they were going to borrow a vehicle and individually form and test fit each piece(so no jig costs)

Well that might end up making it more expensive considering the man hours involved to shape each piece. Now if there were only say 2 or 3 cages to be made, that might be the best way since you wouldnt have to build jigs because it takes man hours to build those also. But if you have a fair amount of interest, using a jig would be more efficient and practical.

Rob

 

[SHODWN]

Fred and all, both the Rickety and the one in your Porche are SHOW bars and would not do squat in a crash. The R bar would fold in a heart beat plus dont forget that if you do roll, most of the time you (anyone) land and crush the windsheild in with the R bar it would squish you like a grape because the bar cant fold back unless you bend the floor (unlikely).

Bennies or the R style bar - Mount a camera and lock in your harnesses (cross bar is in the wrong location though and in the right crash could cut you in 1/2).

The bar in your Porch is the same way, if you were to flip it it might support the weight of the car at 20mph but who the heck rolls at 25? I would not want the windshield and that bar saving my life.. No way! But it does look ******!

Prices you speak of are also low for the SHOW bar, DOM tubing has jumped up in price, the fab part will take a bunch of hrs, welding then powder coating it or Chrome like your Porch.

I think Kurtsy is talking a full cage like what you seen in Marks car or the Bond- cars that were on display in Cali last year. Those will support the weight of the car in a modest crash.

I have some books on suspension building here with a bit of info on cages if you would like to read them LMK.

In a SHO unless your going to chop up the dash (can do it neatly) and most of the other interior than a full cage is more than likely out of the question. Plus the amount of work installing this, most people qould quit after seeing the directions let alone what it looks like in the car.

Do "A" bar if:
You do a track day here and there and want to look like your car is setup up
You want to look cool
You want a mount for your camera
You want to mount camera and harnesses
You have done everything else and made your car ride like **** and want to add to your misery.

Do a real cage if:
You do lots of track time and actuall know what you are doing
Have a car with enough power that might cause a serious crash
Have HUGE balls and might go crazy enough to roll over
Need a full cage for NASA, SCCA.... ECT
Have a ***** in front of you on the front stretch stop and turn into the pit box with Cobras chaseing you at 100+ MPH

In no means am I dissing the R bar! I think its a great idea for things listed above but by no means will it help in saving your life, if you call Eric directly he im sure would tell you the same. A full properly built and installed ROLL CAGE will help in saving you. but there is not a single person that builds them that would give you a statement like that, not even in Nascar where car roll over at 200 plus. Ill go further into detail why if need be but I think everyone should get the point.

Select something that you can associate with above or save your money and get more track time.

 

[drivinhard]

I just sold my cage this week, it came attached to a 1989 SHO chassis/body

Personally I would shy away from bolt in kits. Welding base plates is much stronger (and much more effective in making the chassis more rigid, I remember an interesting article G. Morrel posted about a test of such). If you are just looking for a main hoop with a couple of dog legs, this is nice to mount a nice track seat to and belts. May provide a little protection in a roll over to keep the roofline up near your head, but with no halo, I dunno how effective it would be. Regardless, I'd weld it in.

I'd spend the $$ and do it at a chassis shop to. They are a real pain. If I ever get around to doing a gen3 body/track car I'll pay the $2k labor and let a local race shop do it. In the time it would take me to fab up another one, I could make $4k doing something else

One piece of advice I will say, as I almost learned the hard way and shot myself in the foot with the 89...find the seat that fits your body FIRST. Then mount it in the car so that you are comfortable, and your preferred height/angle, etc. (Low and slightly biased towards the center can be prefered, keeps you away from the tubing.) Then, once you got it set, build everything around the seat and you. I did it backwards, and it/I almost didn't fit good...

 

[SuperchargedSHOguy]

Any advancements on the roll cages?!?

 

[SHO Continental]

Just saw this.. I'd be in for a FULL cage in the near future.. not for the need of having a fast car that needs it.. but rather the crazy driving part..

 

[shopartsnw]

Progress is slow, since everyone wanted a different option, but the project is not dead yet.

We may just have to build them "one at a time" as people want them.

- Mike