SHOMurph
Ford B@stard
engine swap any day over rebuild. Still alot of good 3.2s out there with 120-130k with bad trannies selling cheap.
Return of the Geek SHO
- Thread starter Geek SHO
- Start date
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Geek SHO
SHO Addict
I may have a line on a low compression 3.2 (bored from a 3.0) for pretty cheap that I would have to assemble. He also has a hardened crankshaft, but I might just put in the crank from my current motor to save some cash.
Still need to take the motor out and put it on a stand. Somehow, my stand only has two arms on it. I need to fab a couple more!
My blue car is also giving me trouble, so of course it gets all the attention right now . . .
Still need to take the motor out and put it on a stand. Somehow, my stand only has two arms on it. I need to fab a couple more!
My blue car is also giving me trouble, so of course it gets all the attention right now . . .
Geek SHO
SHO Addict
Update 11/11
My blue car is on hold for the moment, so the black car got some more attention on the interior. A couple days ago it looked like this:
I think I like the look of no center console. Kinda old school muscle car-ish.
I removed the stereo deck and test fit a DIN sized gauge panel I found at the Pick N Pull on a '92 SLO:
This is how far I got yesterday:
Any tips for removing the tar layering the floor of the car? Heat gun and a scraper? I never knew my car had rear foot-well heater vents. Was this a common option? I think I'll leave it in because it's just a big piece of plastic. I'll save weight elsewhere.
Stay tuned for pictures of the huge trove of treasures I found underneath all the carpets.
My blue car is on hold for the moment, so the black car got some more attention on the interior. A couple days ago it looked like this:
I think I like the look of no center console. Kinda old school muscle car-ish.
I removed the stereo deck and test fit a DIN sized gauge panel I found at the Pick N Pull on a '92 SLO:
This is how far I got yesterday:
Any tips for removing the tar layering the floor of the car? Heat gun and a scraper? I never knew my car had rear foot-well heater vents. Was this a common option? I think I'll leave it in because it's just a big piece of plastic. I'll save weight elsewhere.
Stay tuned for pictures of the huge trove of treasures I found underneath all the carpets.
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a heat gun and scraper was used on James 95. but it didnt amount to a lot of weight
frosho
WOLFMAN
Do want shifter.
I think all Tauri have those rear floor heaters.
I think all Tauri have those rear floor heaters.
Geek SHO
SHO Addict
It may not be much weight, but now is the time to do it before putting the carpet back in.
sperold
Last to Know
If a 3.0 can be re-bored to 3.2, can a 3.2 be re-bored to 3.4 ? That would be nice. Same as the 8-cylinder of 96.
If you can get the parts at a good price, go for the rebuild! It is always nice to have over 10% larger displacement. You can spend a lot of money on the little motor just to equal this one change. There is no substitute for cubic inches.
If you can get the parts at a good price, go for the rebuild! It is always nice to have over 10% larger displacement. You can spend a lot of money on the little motor just to equal this one change. There is no substitute for cubic inches.
Geek SHO
SHO Addict
I'm going to keep the rusty 3.2 that's in the car now, maybe for boring out to 3.3L with Wiseco pistons, but if the low compression 3.2 works out well, I might just chuck it.
jonheese
Used-To-Know-It-All
Well, the stock 3.2L block is really just a bored-out 3.0L block; it doesn't have any more material than the 3.0L block (this was argued many times over the years, as to whether or not the early 3.0L blocks were different from (thicker than) the late 3.0L & 3.2L blocks, but I don't buy it), so whatever the upper limit of a 3.0L block, it's roughly the same for a 3.2L block. That is, you don't get anything extra from starting with a 3.2L block.
That said, I think that there are a couple of 3.4L V6s out there... I wanna say it was John Miller and/or John Hrinsin that have either bored or stroked 3.4L blocks in service (I think one was stroked only (?) and the other bored & stroked).
IIRC, there is .200" of "meat" left in the 3.0L block cylinder walls, and boring to 3.2L (to use stock 3.2L pistons/rods) is a ~.122" overbore. Much more than that will probably significantly weaken the cylinder walls, and to bore to 3.4L (without stroking) would be a ~.239" overbore, which is impossible with .200" thick walls!
SHOShop (when they were in business) offered a 3.6L stroker block, which I believe was a 3.0L bored out to 3.2L, then stroked to 3.6L. I don't know how many of these were actually produced (if any), nor what their durability record was.
Here's a Wayback snapshot of their "Performance" page from 2001, where you can read all about the boring/stroking options:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010406132359/http://www.shoshop.com/Guidelogs/v6guidelgv40/v6chp2.htm
It's interesting to note that that page says that it's not possible to put a stock 3.2L block from an ATX car into an MTX car... So take that for what it's worth.
Actually there is, it's called cubic centimeters.
Just messing with ya.
Regards,
Jon Heese
jonheese
Used-To-Know-It-All
I wonder how many of these bored 3.3L blocks have been done.
3.3L would be a ~.184" overbore on the 3.0L, or a .064" overbore on the 3.2L, and puts you within .016" of the proposed .200" cylinder wall thickness...
Does anyone have confirmed numbers of the upper boring limit (i.e. cylinder wall thickness) and what's the most you can safely remove?
Regards,
Jon Heese
My blue car is on hold for the moment, so the black car got some more attention on the interior. A couple days ago it looked like this:
I think I like the look of no center console. Kinda old school muscle car-ish.
I removed the stereo deck and test fit a DIN sized gauge panel I found at the Pick N Pull on a '92 SLO:
This is how far I got yesterday:
Any tips for removing the tar layering the floor of the car? Heat gun and a scraper? I never knew my car had rear foot-well heater vents. Was this a common option? I think I'll leave it in because it's just a big piece of plastic. I'll save weight elsewhere.
Stay tuned for pictures of the huge trove of treasures I found underneath all the carpets.
Dry Ice and a real big hammer...It will fall apart
Geek SHO
SHO Addict
I think John Miller's motor is stroked to 3.6, but don't take my word for it.
Dry ice, huh? I might actually have some left over from Halloween!
Dry ice, huh? I might actually have some left over from Halloween!
jonheese
Used-To-Know-It-All
Yeah, I forgot to mention that my "facts" are most likely very skewed from reality... My brain just regurgitates its best approximation of what it stored who-knows-how-long ago, so it's only occasionally accurate.
Regards,
Jon Heese
sho2see
sho2see
Dry ice to remove that tar
BlackonBlack89
SHO Member
Jem is the only person I know of with a running 3.6 liter SHO.
And that one craigslist which is S/C'ed too. And in cali. (supposedly a 3.6)
And for ur Q about the block. I would bet Josh T at SHOnut could answer you.
And that one craigslist which is S/C'ed too. And in cali. (supposedly a 3.6)
And for ur Q about the block. I would bet Josh T at SHOnut could answer you.
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jonheese
Used-To-Know-It-All
Okay, so I just realized (from jthod's post in another thread) that my math is off by .200" because of my stupid brain forgetting that a wall thickness is included twice in an overbore number, since bore is a diameter, not a radius.
So, recalculating, using the .196" wall thickness number that jthod measured in this thread (which, incidentally is within .004" of the "accepted" .200" value):
Boring a 3.0L block to 3.2L (to use stock 3.2L pistons) would be a ~.122" overbore (from 3.500" to 3.622"), which leaves roughly .135" of wall left (according to your .196" wall thickness measurement).
Boring a 3.0L block to 3.3L (which is reportedly possible) would be a ~.184" overbore (from 3.500" to 3.684") which leaves roughly .104" of wall left.
Boring a 3.0L block to 3.4L would be a ~.239" overbore (from 3.500" to 3.739") which leaves roughly .0805" of wall left.
The theoretical maximum overbore is just under .400" (although in practice it would be at least a few hundredths less than that), which would be a 3.7L block.
According to jthod's measurements, there's 3.896" of material to work with overall, so let's say you want to bore as much as possible, and leave .020" of material around the cylinder wall, that'd be a 3.696" bore and would result in a 3.62L block.
Regards,
Jon Heese
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shomethe$$$
SHO Member
Does the 3.2 block have more material to start with? is the 3.0 and 3.2 ATX the same block?
jonheese
Used-To-Know-It-All
Well, that's the $64,000 question...
The folklore says that the '93-'95 (Gen2) 3.0L blocks were beefier than the '89-'92 (Gen1) 3.0L blocks, presumably because they were then bored out to make the ATX blocks and they wanted more of a margin for error.
However, as far as I know, that's just hearsay, and no one's shown conclusively that there are any appreciable differences between any of the 3.0L blocks. (I could be very wrong here, as I've known to be wrong quite often in the past. If so, someone please correct me.)
If you read jthod's "boring"
)) thread I linked above, he has access to an utrasonic wall thickness gauge tool ($$$) in an engine machining class he's taking, and that's how he measured the .196" wall thickness on his Gen1 3.0L block. He said he doesn't have a 3.2L nor a Gen2 3.0L block to measure, but it'd be great if we could somehow get him one of each...Then we'd know for sure (or at least as sure as you are in his measuring capability).
.Regards,
Jon Heese
SHO_DOODmorrris
Owner & Fanatic
Good info in here...
sperold
Last to Know
Take your rusty block out of the car, clean it up best you can, pull it apart, then run a hone down through the cylinder. In a couple of passes, you will know if there is any harm done. Worst case scenario, you can always dry sleeve the cylinder that is bad. These repairs are not all that expensive; and you save an engine that you know the history of. Any junk yard engine may have been overheated and scorched to within an inch of it's life. Or left full of water over a winter and stressed the block.
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