Replace Fuel Pump as preven. maint?

[roswell998]

Does the fuel pump usually just quit without any warning? I just read a post by Bizzy (http://www.shoforum.com/showpost.php?p=366640&postcount=9) which stated that if the fuel pressure is OK then the pump would not be the culprit. That's not quite apples-apples to my question since her post was in reply to someone having specific performance problems and my 93atx is running great.

The reason I ask is that I just replaced a bad fuel pump relay but is the pump with about 75K miles on it also a time bomb waiting to strand me somewhere? FYI, the pressure is fine (abt 39psi) at the rail and the sound running is normal.

It's a pretty big job to replace but doing it in my garage as preventative maint. would be much less painful than being stranded somewhere and maybe even being forced to go to a stealership. However, I don't want to create unnecessary work or needlessly spend money but sometimes PM is prudent.

BOTTOM LINE.............prior to failure can you normally expect some advance warning such as noise, intermittent failure, lower pressure etc. or is it a crap shoot?

 

[Slo-Sho]

I don't want to create unnecessary work or needlessly spend money

Motors take longer to start, especially when hot. Failing pumps whine noticeably louder. I wouldn't worry about it and instead just keep up on the fuel filter changes. Dirty filters make the pump work harder.

 

[Bizzy]

BOTTOM LINE.............prior to failure can you normally expect some advance warning such as noise, intermittent failure, lower pressure etc. or is it a crap shoot?

I would say that there typically is advance warning of failure. Loud whining, a grinding sound when the pump primes, sometimes it sounds slower than normal when priming, lower pitched, etc. etc. All those would be warning sounds for you to listen to. (The lower pitch or slower priming can also indicate a low charge on your battery too though.)

Physical symptoms would be hard to start especially if parked on an incline where the nose of the car is pointed to the top of the hill & lowered fuel pressure at the rails. I never had intermittent failure when mine died, though the symptoms did come on rather suddenly and progressed rapidly as I recall.

Those are a few of the typical symptoms, however no two ever fail exactly the same way. With the miles on yours I would personally expect more use out of it but that does not mean that you will get more use out of it. I think I had over 120k on mine when it finally croaked.

Dropping the tank can be a hefty job especially if there is rust on the straps. There is the option of cutting a trap door under your rear seat as well, though some would not even consider this as an option. It was done to mine and I'm quite pleased with the results. Whenever the time comes to replace the pump again (I've got about 80k on the one in there now) it will be a breeze.

 

[greenbeanmtx]

Would a dieing pump make it just turn over and over until u put the gas pedal to the floor and then it kicks right off? this happens on occasion with my 89 my sister has. The cam and crank sensors are both new units from autozone but that might be the problem. Im not too concerned about it, just sort of curious.

 

[Rockledge]

Would a dieing pump make it just turn over and over until u put the gas pedal to the floor and then it kicks right off? this happens on occasion with my 89 my sister has. The cam and crank sensors are both new units from autozone but that might be the problem. Im not too concerned about it, just sort of curious.

Actually, pushing the gas pedal to the floor while cranking a Ford fuel injected engine acts as a sort of "reverse choke" in that it cuts off the fuel injectors and allows more air to flow in (vis a vis the open throttle plate). Sort of the opposite of what most people think is happening when they floor it like that during startup.

 

[greenbeanmtx]

Actually, pushing the gas pedal to the floor while cranking a Ford fuel injected engine acts as a sort of "reverse choke" in that it cuts off the fuel injectors and allows more air to flow in (vis a vis the open throttle plate). Sort of the opposite of what most people think is happening when they floor it like that during startup.

Well i just learned something new today! So what does that mean if im having to do that to get it to start? It exibits this mabe 2 times a week driven on a daily basis. Again its the 89 thats got 242k on it so its not a big deal. For the record the car is bone stock all the way down to a paper filter.

 

[Rockledge]

Well, one thing to consider is that the Idle Air Control valve might be acting up, since w/o the pedal action the IAC is the only source of air at closed throttle.

 

[38SHO]

Actually, pushing the gas pedal to the floor while cranking a Ford fuel injected engine acts as a sort of "reverse choke" in that it cuts off the fuel injectors and allows more air to flow in (vis a vis the open throttle plate). Sort of the opposite of what most people think is happening when they floor it like that during startup.

besides that what kind of ***** would even think of doing that? As soon as the motor fires up its going to start revving out quickly, while no oil has been dispersed etc... bet that gives some good engine wear

 

[greenbeanmtx]

besides that what kind of ***** would even think of doing that? As soon as the motor fires up its going to start revving out quickly, while no oil has been dispersed etc... bet that gives some good engine wear

A ***** such as myself does it to get the blastid thing to start from time to time. Unlike some im talented enough to get off the gas as soon as it kicks off to avoid reving it up like that. When your car as 242k on it tell me how well it runs! Im more than willing to tap the gas from time to time if she doesnt want to start.

 

[roswell998]

One last post to the original thread

Answers to the following two specific questions will be appreciated:

1. Will failing pump usually give warning in the form of reduced pressure at the rail in the preceding days or weeks or is the failure usually rather sudden?

2. Will a noticable change in pump sound usually precede failure for a few days or weeks or again is the failure usually rather sudden?

EDIT: I know Bizzy addressed the above, but I'm trying to get some type of time line to expect from as many that have experienced failures as possible and also if most ended up stranded somewhere needing a tow or if most got enough warning to beat the tow truck.

 

[SHOoff89]

When my pump failed on my first '91, there was no real warning. It would drive fine for a few days, die for around a half hour to an hour, and then start right up again, almost like a failing CPS. The odd thing was that it only failed at first if it was warm outside (above 70). I could drive it at night when it was cool just fine, but if it was during the heat of the day, it would just die. Every time I checked the fuel pressure after I came home, it was fine.

One day, I went outside to go to the store, and it wouldn't start at all. After a bit of cursing and yelling, I started to check stuff out and figured out the fuel pump was dead.

Bottom line, if you are worried about it and are losing sleep about it, with 75k on a the pump it might not be such a bad idea to replace it anyway. I know that I have a lot better peice of mind knowing that I will not get stranded because of it.

 

[Bizzy]

I agree with SHOoff89 in that some will give you warning signs/sounds and others won't. It all depends on what kind of failure occurs. An old weak pump may give you the grinding prime sound sometimes and then other times it might just say "**** no, I ain't gonna pump no-mo." So if you're worried about it then replace it.

38SHO, I find your comment to be out of line. This is a help section for those who don't know. Nobody knows everything about these cars, thus why this forum exists in the first place. Just because someone doesn't know to do (or not to do) something does not make them a *****. Please refrain from making comments such as this in the future.

 

[Devin]

I had a SLO '87 GL (RIP!) that had a failing pump. Just like SHOoff my car would not start when hot. It would have to cool down for an hour or so (when it was warm out) before the car would start again. Someone on the TCCA suggested that I replace the fuel pump, which I had someone do finally.

Bizzy, do you have a link to the instructions on making a fuel pump hatch? I want to do that with my car but I feel like I'm going to blow it up...

 

[oh_SHO]

besides that what kind of ***** would even think of doing that? As soon as the motor fires up its going to start revving out quickly, while no oil has been dispersed etc... bet that gives some good engine wear

Ever heard of a flooded engine? and yes, EFI engine still get flooded but not very often. My SHO does this on occasion (leaky injector) and when it does start I can let off the pedal so that it does not rev much.

 

[greenbeanmtx]

I agree with replacing the pump as a precaution anyway. According to the paperwork on my 93 it was replaced at 80k which in my opinion was probably just a security blanket not an actual failure but i might be wrong, i didnt ask. If youve got 75k then id do the cutting a door in the floor and replacing it just to have piece of mind. My 89 however who knows how old the pump is in it. Its quiet and always seems to work well so i dont care until it fails( remember the sister i cant stand is the one driving it ) But the starting problem it has is usually when its cold outiside. I bought it back in september so i havent really experienced a hot summer yet with it so we will see how that goes.

 

[olympic]

They can quit with absolutely no warning, it's happened to me. So I replace them on my fleet vehicles at around 150-180k miles even if they are working fine. I keep the cars until 300-350k so I'm pretty sure they'll need a pump replacement at some point, so I do it when it's convenient for me and before it dies 300 miles from home.