Raybestos front rotors warped after <3k miles

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Liquid_force

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If it's not warped rotors, that's EXACTLY what it feels like.

They felt great when i first installed them, and for a couple thousand miles.

Sometime within the last thousand an obvious pulsation has developed.

Rotors are Raybestos 66749R from their "professional grade" line.
And PGD598C "professional grade" ceramic pads.

Think Raybestos will be any help here?
I know there's a lot of fine print with brake hardware warranties.

I got them from Rockauto.
 

SHOZ123

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I got some lifetime warranted Raybestos "Brute Stops" from Rock Auto. After about 9 months they developed radial cracks. Rock Auto said the lifetime warranty was only for as long as they remained in the box.

Best bet is to just get the cheapest you can find.
 

hawkeye18

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95% of the time, warped rotors aren't. The other 5% of the time is usually caused by poor seasoning.

First, remove the rotors and clean them well with Brakleen. Most "warped rotors" are simply uneven pad deposits. In fact, a good hard brake-stomping from about 80 will usually clean said deposits off quite well.

Did you season the rotors? If your response is "what's seasoning?" then you probably didn't, and your rotors may indeed be warped.
 

93rev2sev

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When I install new rotors, I immerse them in warm soapy water and scrub them with an upholstery brush. I then let them air dry. In fifteen minutes, they develop a nice even layer of flash rust. If there's a spot that doesn't flash rust, I wash them again.

That's the best way I know of for making sure the rotors are A. cleaned of all oil and B. not covered with paper towel fibers.

If you don't make absolutely sure that the rotors are free of all contaminents, then you risk having them either warp or become imbedded with contaminents (which feels just like a warped rotor).
 

Liquid_force

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I wipe them off with brake cleaner before reassembling, but no, I've never heard of heat cycling brakes before putting the car back into normal service.

I've done a number of brake jobs on the cars I've driven over the past 10 yrs or so. One a 140+ mph Ford that saw 100+ more than occasionally, that I drove for about 140k miles, and was generally maintained with the cheapest parts. Never a problem like this.

Honestly - this "seasoning" process sounds a lot like the "breaking in" a speaker process I've read oh so much about in car audio circles.
Something dreampt up by sales people/shop owners designed to BS an unsatisfied customer into not demanding a refund.
 
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LJRuddy

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This just confirms my belief that a cheap rotor is garbage. I put a hurting on NAPA's top of the line gen 3 rotors for 50,000 miles and they werent warped/wobbly at all. The rotors on my 96 are the cheapo rotors and they make me think a wheel is falling off every time I slow down.
 

zach44102

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i have cheapo orielys rotors on my 96 upgrade and i beat the crap out of them with hawk hps pads....no warping yet i hope they wont......
 
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hawkeye18

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Honestly - this "seasoning" process sounds a lot like the "breaking in" a speaker process I've read oh so much about in car audio circles.
Something dreampt up by sales people/shop owners designed to BS an unsatisfied customer into not demanding a refund.

Dump an ice cube into a glass of warm water. Look at what happens. The structure of an ice cube is unstable, and will expand at different rates internally. When you introduce a large temperature differential, different parts of the cube expand at different rates, and the cube - being unable to contain the stresses - cracks.

A brake rotor works in the same way, and the crystalline structure of an iron rotor looks surprisingly similar to one of an ice cube. The same physics applies; if you heat a fresh rotor up too fast, the different parts of the rotor will expand at different rates. Iron, being more ductile than ice, will simply warp, but if it heats up too fast, it can and will crack.

Now, leave an ice cube on the counter, and observe it every once in a while. Notice that it doesn't crack. This is because the more uniform - and slower - rate of heating (air is much less conductive than water) reduces the rate of difference in expansion in the ice cube, so that the energy locked up in the cube is expended without fracturing the cube itself.

Again, the rotor acts in much the same way. If you gradually and gently heat the rotor up when you first use it, you will allow the different parts of the rotor to realign themselves without altering the shape of the rotor.

This isn't sales hocus pocus, it's basic metallurgy, and if you're so paranoid that you think people are saying this just to avoid giving you your money back, then you need to just put your foil hat back on and go on your merry way.

This just confirms my belief that a cheap rotor is garbage. I put a hurting on NAPA's top of the line gen 3 rotors for 50,000 miles and they werent warped/wobbly at all. The rotors on my 96 are the cheapo rotors and they make me think a wheel is falling off every time I slow down.

And you... allowing one man's experience to shape your opinion of something is just dumb. Especially when the man's methods are questionable at best. You should know better.

Iron is iron; it's the same as it was a few thousand years ago. There is very little metallurgy involved, as there are no alloys. It's just regular ol' pig iron. $30 rotors are just as good as $300 rotors. Is the QC as good? No; you might get 1 out of 10 rotors that cracks or whatever. But I'll tell you what; I'll get ten $30 rotors, and you get one $300 rotor, and we'll see who has good brakes for longer, since I have 9 good rotors.
 
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LJRuddy

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And you... allowing one man's experience to shape your opinion of something is just dumb. Especially when the man's methods are questionable at best. You should know better.

Nowhere did I say I based my opinion off of his experience. I did say that his experience further confirms my belief on the subject. I too have had plenty of time working with cheap rotors and expensive rotors. I've probably put at least a dozen sets on the 10 cars I have had in the past. Every time, the more expensive pair out lasted the less expensive pair. :wave:
 

SHOZ123

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I never cleaned the rotors. Never had them turned. Just put on good new pads and use the brakes hard now and then after bedding them in.

Any oil on the rotors will soon not be when a little heat is applied. If the pads are aggressive enough they will clean the rotors up.

The only time I did not use cheap rotors is when I went to the Brutestops.
 

Liquid_force

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Actually, I do have a better knowledge of metallurgy than the average joe.

Where I think the hocus pocus enters the equation is thinking you can control the tempering process with how you apply the brakes.

If this process is necessary it seems a lot more feasible to me to do 1000 at a time in the factory oven the RIGHT way instead of trying to do it by guesswork on the car. And if the time/effort were taken to do that you might think a company with a decent marketing department could use it to their advantage.

I didn't consider Raybestos' mid-line to be "cheap". Although they are inexpensive at rockauto.
 
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SHOZ123

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Sorry but what I do works for me. I just try and pass it along. Seen too many hi dollar rotors fail destructively. The cheap ones just get too thin after a while.
 

93rev2sev

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I never cleaned the rotors. Any oil on the rotors will soon not be when a little heat is applied.

You must be joking. Installing new rotors without cleaning them first is just plain silly. Oil does not evaporate, so the second part of your statement is simply wrong.
 

93rev2sev

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Actually, I do have a better knowledge of metallurgy than the average joe.

Where I think the hocus pocus enters the equation is thinking you can control the tempering process with how you apply the brakes.

If this process is necessary it seems a lot more feasible to me to do 1000 at a time in the factory oven the RIGHT way instead of trying to do it by guesswork on the car. And if the time/effort were taken to do that you might think a company with a decent marketing department could use it to their advantage.

I didn't consider Raybestos' mid-line to be "cheap". Although they are inexpensive at rockauto.

You are correct in thinking that seasoning rotors is malarky. You think that Ford ramps all their "fresh off the line" cars up to speed and then stomps on the brakes to make sure they're seasoned for the end customer? Hellz no. Nor does any professional shop or dealer or that I've ever heard of.
 

Liquid_force

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You must be joking. Installing new rotors without cleaning them first is just plain silly. Oil does not evaporate, so the second part of your statement is simply wrong.

Oil most definitely evaporates.

For that matter - Platinum will evaporate if you get it hot enough.
 
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jedhead

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I follow these seasoning and bedding procedures.

http://www.baer.com/technical/braking-202/rotor-seasoning.php
http://www.baer.com/technical/braking-202/pad-bedding.php

I have used stock OEM rotors, whatever autozone had that day, cryo treated cheap rotors and custom 2 Piece rotors. I have used PFCM pads, Hawk and Carbotech pads. So far the cryo treated rotors have lasted the longest. 2 sets of PFCM pads on my SHO and two sets of PFCM pads on my bro's SHO. Never had a pulsing problem in any of the rotors. I haven't put enough miles on my custom 2 Piece rotors to see how long they will last. Once I season a rotor with a certain pad, like carbon metallic, I stay with the same compound. I have driven over 900,000 miles over the years and these processes have worked well for me.

Bob
 
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