question about e85 gas (ethanol)

[duckrider]

any one know if its possible to convert the 3.0 sho to run on e85 (85% ethanol 15% peto ) going by what i have read on other engines it should just involved maybe bigger injectors stronger fuel pump , and adjustments to the computer , i can change the injectors myself and the fuel pump but who could do the work to the computer, or would it be necessary to get a tweecer ...? any thoughts on the matter, because the price of fuel is killing me but i love the sho , and can get ethanol cheep .... but if all else fails i will have to buy a flex fuel slo ... but would much rather have a e85 sho ..

 

[jedhead]

You will need to make sure every gasket, seal and hose is resistant to ethanol which is corrosive. Also, keep in mind that some of the money you save in buy E85 will negated by the lower milage you get with E85. Also attendent with a loss in power is that you might be pushing the throttle harder and quicker to make up for the loss of power; which will also negatively effect your milage. You might have to drive a lot to get your money back. Maybe a year of driving.

Bob

 

[duckrider]

You will need to make sure every gasket, seal and hose is resistant to ethanol which is corrosive. Also, keep in mind that some of the money you save in buy E85 will negated by the lower milage you get with E85. Also attendent with a loss in power is that you might be pushing the throttle harder and quicker to make up for the loss of power; which will also negatively effect your milage. You might have to drive a lot to get your money back. Maybe a year of driving.

Bob

good point on the gaskets i will have to look into that, it might not be possible to get some of them, might have to look into making them ...
in my calculations even with the loss of fuel mileage i am still looking to save about 1800 to 2000 dollars a year by running the e85 ( i have financial interest in the production of it , so i get it cheap) plus i drive alot, its part of my job , but if the conversion is to costly i will just get another vehicle but would really like to have an e85 sho because i love the sho and think it would be cool to do, plus it would be an advertising point to say , if it can be feasible in the sho it can be feasible in any car ... so another selling point for my financial interest in the ethanol ... where my biggest confusion lies is with the computer programing part of the endeavor i am not proficient with this ... any thoughts on the matter ...?

 

[Rockledge]

On the FFV 3.0L engines, there is also a flex fuel sensor that is incorporated into the EEC. The FFV sensor measures the % of alcohol in the fuel and provides a feedback signal (frequency) to the PCM. Based on the signal, the PCM compensates for the amount of alcohol in the fuel, making adjustments to ignition timing and a/f ratios.

 

[shojuan]

On the FFV 3.0L engines, there is also a flex fuel sensor that is incorporated into the EEC. The FFV sensor measures the % of alcohol in the fuel and provides a feedback signal (frequency) to the PCM. Based on the signal, the PCM compensates for the amount of alcohol in the fuel, making adjustments to ignition timing and a/f ratios.

That wouldn't be necessary if he planned on not blending E85 with plain gasoline. I imagine the biggest headache in a conversion would be attempting to integrate an adaptive system like that.

IMO, a tweecer ought to be all you need to get started. I don't see why there would be any power loss once the air/fuel metering was setup properly assuming you upgrade to injectors that can flow enough fuel at WOT. The stock injectors probably would be able to handle mild cruising. The motor would probably be running at maximum advance all the time because of the high octane burning characteristics of ethanol. At most you'll flow twice as much E85 as gasoline...probably somewhat less in the real world. As long as you're getting E85 for less than 1/2 the cost/gal you'll be golden. Expect startability issues in the dead of winter. You might want to rig a setup that will squirt some plain gas from a small tank to ease starting. If you can keep it in a fairly warm garage that would help as long as the car doesn't get really cold at your destination.

I know some guys have done conversions without worrying about ethanol compatability of the entire fuel system but you'd want to do some research to see if there are any problem areas in the SHO's fuel system...hoses, plastics, gaskets, etc. Unless you just want to treat your SHO like a total beater and are ok with using your fuel savings to buy another beater next year.

Keep us updated with details if you really plan to make the conversion. I'm sure there are several more folks here who are interested in the prospects. If you decide not to convert the SHO you can always pick up a carbureted beater. Some guys have had success with the total poor man's solution: simply swapping bigger jets into the carbs so the thing runs.

 

[ShoREV]

That wouldn't be necessary if he planned on not blending E85 with plain gasoline. I imagine the biggest headache in a conversion would be attempting to integrate an adaptive system like that...QUOTE]

Going with what Rockledge said about FFV engines in the Taurus, I figured that it may be possible they used the same gasket, seals, and hoses on the SHO since it was an exotic high perform engine. There was a station that pumped E85 at 105 octane just a few block from church, so temptation got me and I filled up from empty. About the 1st 10 or so miles it would die at stops sometimes and idle high but soon smoothed out. Man, what a difference! Or at least it seemed. May have been in my head thinking that I was running almost racing fuel. She drank it like a drunk though, about 2-3 miles per gal less and as soon as it hit 1/4 tank I had to beeline to my faviort station.

Too bad though, after about 4-5 tanks it shot up from 2.48 a gal to 3.49 a gal and is still there. Thought the station was running a scam so I called the main promotion division in Missouri for Ethanol. They said the oil companies found that an attitive in the gasoline was discovered to cause cancer so they replaced it with, you guessed it, Ethanol. Bought up all the supplies and the refineries can’t keep up with the demand. Oh well, guess its good before my seals all rot out.

 

[thecrew2999]

dont know why anyone would wanna use this junk... the claim it to be cheaper where most places its more then high test and not to mention worse gas milage and less performance? can someone explain why this might be a concept lol

 

[93rev2sev]

e85 FTW For The World. Corn grows back. Dinos Don't

As for an e85 SHO? I think you would be better off keeping your soon to be collectible original, and getting a SLO to convert (if converting is what you want). Otherwise, I'm all for the use of FFV.

SAVE THE DINO JUICE FOR US TO USE 50 YEARS FROM NOW IN OUR SHOS, Fairlanes, Mustangs..etc.

 

[1slickRED89]

any one know if its possible to convert the 3.0 sho to run on e85 (85% ethanol 15% peto )

really all you need to do is increase the injector size so they flow 40% more fuel, or get close and let the computer adaptive learning work out the details. this will make it a permanent ethanol car as it would foul if you put regular gas in it. otherwise your golden.

the fuel lines and tank were designed for E10 so they will last with E85 for a while.

I'm tuning my turbo car for E85 ethanol as I type, for the sole reason that I have two station close to my house and I need the high octane value. screw the price, ethanol may never be cost effective (especially after it losses the $.50/gal gov. subsidy). but it is helluva less $ than race gas.

 

[Shoaz]

The main thing about E85 (ethanol in general) is that it's very corrosive compared to gasoline. You'll want to convert anything that the fuel touches, including the tank, fuel lines, injector rails, etc., etc.

 

[dvincent]

I did some research on this ealier in the summer, this site had some of the best info on it http://www.abcesso.com/.

 

[Paul]

The beautiful thing about alcohol is it will run on anything. Not bad either.The trouble with alcohol is corrorsion and the aftermath of it. 15% will cause minimal corrosive effect to most cars in this era, but it will cause some damage. In alot of regions cold, its in the fuel already 5%. Alcohol is a great fuel, unfortunetly the intake & fuel systems of regular gas internal combustion engines can't tolorate the corrosive nature of alcohol.

 

[wood_e]

I despise ethanol here in iowa. Out gas prices are artificially low because of that crap and my fuel mileage offsets the "savings".

 

[Rockledge]

I despise ethanol here in iowa. Out gas prices are artificially low because of that crap and my fuel mileage offsets the "savings".

I honestly never thought I'd ever hear someone complain about "artificially low" fuel prices.

And regarding ethanol, I suppose you'd rather have the United States continue to be at the whim of OPEC than have your farming neighbors sell more of their home-grown product?

 

[thecrew2999]

were not gonna use up all the fuel unless ford keeps pushing out suvs and their crap they call trucks

 

[thecrew2999]

also i seen a thing on the discovery channel how they are turning garbage in landfills into gas not e85 but gas.

 

[wood_e]

I honestly never thought I'd ever hear someone complain about "artificially low" fuel prices.

And regarding ethanol, I suppose you'd rather have the United States continue to be at the whim of OPEC than have your farming neighbors sell more of their home-grown product?

Opec is an organization with power, but it is diminishing greatly. Oh, and what about this "gas scare" we had over the summer? It's pretty much gone now come election time. I support my local farmers, but I'm weary of ethanol's usefulness.

I don't like putting ethanol in my car. It's even in the premium fuel here. For example, I get about 20mpg with ethanol and when I'm out of state (like in MN) I get about 24-25. I usually fill up when i have about 15 gallons used, so ethanol gets me 300 miles, and non gets me about 355. Lets say an 89.5 blend is $1.99 and 91 is 2.22. It costs 29.85 to fill her up with ethanol, and $33.30 without. Gas without ethanol costs me $0.093 per mile and ethanol blend costs me $0.0995. Granted these are rather negligible, but still, ethanol costs me more, hence the atrificially low prices.

Does ethanol make my car go forward? Yes! Is is a good solution to a long term problem? I'm well aware that ethanol has about 4 or 5 percent less energy than gas so, not until they can get better efficiency.

 

[Paul]

More alcohol is required than gas to turn rubber = worse economy.

 

[Paul]

It costs more to produce than gasoline, Its a big political joke. But good for farmers.