Quaife Install

[redwraith94]

So I got my quaife gears all polished up, I will upload pics in a few days. The quaife is bolted back together, and I need some advice.

Can I reuse the factory shim, or do I need to rent the shim kit to install the quaife?

I have the bolts from shonut, and new axle seals, and all new bearings for the trans. Timken / BCA

I can't think of anything else, but is there anything to watch out for when installing the quaife?

Mike

 

[Phoenix]

SHONUT sell a nice video on the how-to of exactly that.

 

[redwraith94]

I don't really want to shell out the 30 bucks if I can avoid it.

I have access to a machine shop, and we can measure, and grind flats down to a tenth of a thousandth. I remember the original bearing preload shims were supposed to be within 1/3 of a millimeter at three spots, or about 13 mils.

If I measure the overall length of the old differential with the old bearings, and shims still on, and then make sure the quaife with new bearings, and shims is the same length, so the same preload, would that be good enough? Or does the quaife need more preload?

 

[twr]

Quaife should be preloaded a few thou more, since the case is aluminum and the quaife is steel.

 

[NovaSS]

Take the built up quaife diff and lay it in the case on the bench . Take a strip of solder and use it in place of the shims on the top half. Bolt the top down and remove. Measure the compressed solder , subtract a couple thousands and thats the shim thickness you need


You dont want to spend $ 30 bucks to install a $1300 diff ??????( $1400 with parts)

 

[NJSHO]

Yeah man spend the extra 30 bucks. You would feel pretty bad if you f'ed up a $1200 diff thats not made anymore over 30 bucks.

 

[AREA 91]

I really recomend the video from SHO NUT. I would not want to risk damage to the tranny or quaife. It's cheap insurance. Remember that the diff shim is behind the bearing race in the case. You also need the diff selection tools for measuring. The video and tools are available at: www.shonutperformance.com;)

 

[redwraith94]

It's not so much the movie, I was trying to avoid renting the shim selector tool along with it. I still want to know how to install the peelable bearing shims, and what kind of a difference it makes, but maybe i'll rent the tools for now.

 

[zak]

So I got my quaife gears all polished up, I will upload pics in a few days. The quaife is bolted back together, and I need some advice.


Mike

Are you refering to the internal gears on the Quaife, or the external ring gear?

 

[SeanMc]

It's not so much the movie, I was trying to avoid renting the shim selector tool along with it. I still want to know how to install the peelable bearing shims, and what kind of a difference it makes, but maybe i'll rent the tools for now.

Don't cheap out, seriously. It's like trying to build a motor with a butterknife, it's just not possible.

 

[gmorrell]

Take the built up quaife diff and lay it in the case on the bench . Take a strip of solder and use it in place of the shims on the top half. Bolt the top down and remove. Measure the compressed solder , subtract a couple thousands and thats the shim thickness you need

Easier said then done, as the diff bearing races are pressed into the trans case halves. Short of beating the living **** out of the races, which can distort or damage them, the best way to install them is to heat the case to 300F (And no more then 300F!) in an oven, freeze the race, and then working quickly, drop the race into the case recess while the hot is hot and the cold is cold.

I measure the diff bearing preload with a solder shim, but I have an outer race that I centerless ground to reduce the outside diameter so it will slip fit in the trans case. I put the solder shim behind this race, assemble the diff and case, then disassemble and measure the compressed solder. Then I add a few thousandths to account for the Aluminum case expansion, which is far greater then the Quaife's expansion. This keeps the diff bearings from losing preload as the trans gets to normal operating temperature.

redwraith94, would you like to borrow my smaller bearing race? Let me know soon, as I'm leaving this Saturday for a business trip to Europe.

 

[redwraith94]

Are you refering to the internal gears on the Quaife, or the external ring gear?

Both, the ring gear is both more 'true', and mirror, and the quaife internal gears I brought the sun gears up to mirror using valve lapping compound, then 32, 16, 4, and 1/2 micron diamond paste, and finally .03 micron sapphire powder. I also ground .5 - 1.5 mils off of the tops / bottoms of the gears to get them flat before polishing. The planetary gears (i think is the right term?) I only lapped with valve grinding compound, because I ran out of diamond paste, and time.

I finally got pictures of everything, but the abrasives. I just moved, and need to find them, but I hope to post the pics here soon.

redwraith94, would you like to borrow my smaller bearing race? Let me know soon, as I'm leaving this Saturday for a business trip to Europe.

Absolutely! I was kind of leary of trying to get the races back out, but that would be perfect. Do you know where I could find what the "best" preload would be? Shonut sells the peelable shims, but I don't know of any resource that tells how much preload is good in mils, or millimeters, or something.

 

[pjtoledo]

Ah, I hate to be the guy that rains on your parade, but do you fully understand how a torque biasing differential works? It's the diffs internal friction that provides the bias. In a rather simplified form, think of the friction between the worm gears, and the worm gears being forced against the ends, as the equivalent of clutch packs in a limited slip. What you may have done is to polish the "clutch packs", and thereby lessen the ability of the diff to bias. Be sure to let us know how it works out.

Perry

 

[yamahaSHO]

I say bolt it back up as is. We need an example for the next person...

 

[redwraith94]

Yeah, I realize that, but it is possible the viscosity of the oil will also help. I don't really care to be honest. It is worth more to me to have dismantled it, and messed with it with my own hands, even if it reduces it's effectiveness.

I don't really know of any specific tests that I will be doing to test for maximum bias, but if it turns out to be detrimental, I will be sure to let you guys know.

 

[yamahaSHO]

...lol!

 

[zak]

Mike, what you did (polishing the internal Quaife gears) is highly likely to have disrupted the Quaife's bias ratio (3.5:1 on a stock SHO Quaife, if memory serves). The machined surfaces of these internal gears set up friction forces that in turn set the maximum torque split between each axle. Sharply reducing this friction MIGHT make it act like an open diff, or, it might act to constantly slip under power, would need to walk through the internal workings and don't have time at the moment.

One other note - polishing removes material and therefore you are increasing clearances. While probably not critical on a ring and pinion (and in fact beneficial in terms of reducing losses), internal Quaife clearances might be another matter, e.g. leaving room for shock loading to occur..

I would suggest contacting Quaife, possibly through SHOnut Performance (they are familiar with SHO Quiafe failure modes), to inquire about possible negative effects, and determine the cost of a rebuild. They (Quaife UK) might be able to bench test it.

 

[redwraith94]

I appreciate the feedback, but I bought the quaife mostly to make sure that the differential would not grenade. I ground the flat parts of the gears with a grinder, and then polished them, but the lash there is mostly taken up by the spring washers.

The rest of the gear's surface (teeth, roots etc.) I used the lapping compound, different diamond pastes, and sapphire powder with hundreds of q-tips. I am not concerned about the reduced performance. I would be curious if quaife could do a test to see the bias ratio, but I don't have the time to send it out, or really the money to pay them either.

I assume that it will act more like an open differential, but that is ok by me. The big thing is I want to see what it does, and I'll be sure to let you guys know how it goes, so yamasho can laugh at me some more.

I didn't even get to go as far as I wanted, it would have taken me another 20-30 hours to bring the planetary gears up to a mirror finish, and I would have to order more paste, so I only lapped them, but if every surface in that transmission could be dead true, and have a submicron mirror finish, THAT would be my perfect transmission, and a beautiful thing.

 

[AREA 91]

Easier said then done, as the diff bearing races are pressed into the trans case halves. Short of beating the living **** out of the races, which can distort or damage them, the best way to install them is to heat the case to 300F (And no more then 300F!) in an oven, freeze the race, and then working quickly, drop the race into the case recess while the hot is hot and the cold is cold.

I measure the diff bearing preload with a solder shim, but I have an outer race that I centerless ground to reduce the outside diameter so it will slip fit in the trans case. I put the solder shim behind this race, assemble the diff and case, then disassemble and measure the compressed solder. Then I add a few thousandths to account for the Aluminum case expansion, which is far greater then the Quaife's expansion. This keeps the diff bearings from losing preload as the trans gets to normal operating temperature.

redwraith94, would you like to borrow my smaller bearing race? Let me know soon, as I'm leaving this Saturday for a business trip to Europe.

Gary, I want to make sure I understand you correctly. You ground down the outter edge of a differential race so it fits into the case easier, correct???

 

[yamahaSHO]

Yes, that is what he means. Only for testing purposes though.