Possible Electric Problem?

[Silver1995SHO]

I am going to attempt to describe the related issues, and what I feel may be the culprit of the problems...Just hoping for some more advice before I pursue them.

The number one issue I am having with my 1995 SHO (auto) is the car simply dying on me during normal driving. It is very intermittent, and seems to do so randomly. Once this happens, the vehicle is very stubborn to restart...

Which leads me into the second issue...

This may or may not happen when the car dies, but sometimes is related...

The CEL comes on, and the tach does not function at all. This happens roughly 70% of the time that the car dies.

From what I have read on this forum, as well as my other research I have seen "crank position sensor" as well as "camshaft position sensor" as related to these problems.

Doing a blanket search on Taurus related issues, I come across "TFI" related to the distributor...But I always thought the SHO used a DIS? I'm assuming the TFI issue is for non-SHO Taurus models...?

I'm hoping that I am correct with my vague assumptions of the two issues, and they can be corrected ASAP.

Thank you for any and all associated help/guidance with this issue.

- Mike

 

[itwonder]

Your car is ready for some routine maintenance. The water pump is probably dripping on the CPS and causing your problem. Do a front 60K. http://www.shophoenixproject.com/ has the procedure.

 

[Storm-Chaser]

Generally, you differentiate the crank sensor [intermittent] failure from camshaft identification sensor [intermittent] failure by whether it dies or not. For the most part . . .

• both will set codes and throw a check engine light
  
  
• intermittent Crankshaft Sensor Failure - tachometer always rapidly drops to "zero" rpms, and the engines dies as if the key has been moved to the "Off" position. May or may not restart immediately, and will run normally once it starts until it fails again.
  
  
• intermittent Camshaft Identification Sensor Failure - tachometer may or may not show rpm loss (ie. rapidly drop to "zero" rpms), and the engine may die, or run rough (minor to noticeable miss), or run as if there is nothing wrong. May or may not restart immediately, and may or may not run rough with a discernable miss once restarted.

Again, these are generalizations and assume that there are no other "compounding" problems at the time.

Of course, you could just pull the codes instead of guessing . . . .

 

[Silver1995SHO]

Your car is ready for some routine maintenance. The water pump is probably dripping on the CPS and causing your problem. Do a front 60K. www.shoephoenixproject.com has the procedure.

this link is dead...

as a small background, this car was not and has not been really driven in the past 2-3 years very frequently.

my father was the original owner, and i feel he took very good care of the car. it was purchased in CA and garage kept it's whole life.

he always took it in for routine maintenance, oil changes, etc. when required. i have since taken possession of the vehicle merely as a "project" of sorts...because it's a great clean vehicle in my opinion.

i don't have a terribly strong mechanical background, so checking engine codes are not in my realm of possibilities. i was merely doing some mild internet detective work to save a few dollars on getting this car running well...

while i'd like to thank both of you for the responses...i guess i was looking for that "that's it pal you got it!" type of response.

i'm just hoping i'm not wasting $60+ on the crank sensor, and $50+ on the cam sensor.

again, thanks for the help so far!:thankyou:

 

[hawkeye18]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

the link is dead because itwonder stuck an extra 'e' in the URL.

Correct URL is http://www.shophoenixproject.com. Not SHOe phoenix project. lulz!

As far as checking codes goes, do you know your way around a paper clip? If you do, then you can check codes. Procedure is here. Check out the rest of the Wiki while you're at it; it is CHOCK full o' useful information.

Edit: Sure sounds like your crank sensor took a shit on you.

 

[itwonder]

Always did well in school...except for typing class Sorry about that extra "e". Fixed the post.

As already posted: http://www.shophoenixproject.com/

 

[Silver1995SHO]

i had taken the car to have the engine light diagnosed, and the mechanic said it was pointing towards the ignition module which i replaced this week...

the car still throws a code, and the tach does not work on occasion...and i have a **** of a time getting the car to start back up on occasion.

when i spoke to the mechanic about the possibility of the crank and cam sensor failures he mentioned the rarity of a failure and the difficulty of installation of the crank sensor.

he had said something about a "special tool" being needed for the crank sensor, or something associated with it...does this make any sense? because when i browsed the link in this thread and saw the maintenance being performed i saw no specialty tools needed for assembly or reassembly.

i'm really at end with this vehicle, as i need it to be somewhat reliable for transportation...there doesn't seem to be a reliable source and shortage of mechanics in my area familiar with this vehicle.

again, any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[hawkeye18]

wow. You need to fire your mechanic.

First: Crank sensor malfunctions are VERY, VERY, VERY common on SHOs. The water pump sits *right* above it and when it starts leaking, it leaks right onto the sensor, shorting it out.

The only tools you need to get to the crank sensor are a socket set, a #1 phillips screwdriver, maybe a steering wheel puller (if the crank pulley doesn't want to come off, but normally you don't need it), and maybe a MAPP gas torch if you're in the rust belt.

You might want to get a PVC pipe and a wood block if you're planning on replacing the crank seal (which you should, while you're there), but other than that it's pretty straightforward.

Second: dude, I hate to break it to you, but you're either gonna learn how to do your own maintenance real fast, or you're going to sell it, because the SHO is not a vehicle that you can take to any mechanic, because most of them don't know what the f*#% they're doing around it. As you've just witnessed.

You really need to go to the SHOPP website, and read your own codes. Once you get them, post them here, and we'll tell you that you need to replace your crank sensor, as $5 says your code is 212.

 

[Ocnaj]

wow. You need to fire your mechanic.

First: Crank sensor malfunctions are VERY, VERY, VERY common on SHOs. The water pump sits *right* above it and when it starts leaking, it leaks right onto the sensor, shorting it out.

The only tools you need to get to the crank sensor are a socket set, a #1 phillips screwdriver, maybe a steering wheel puller (if the crank pulley doesn't want to come off, but normally you don't need it), and maybe a MAPP gas torch if you're in the rust belt.

You might want to get a PVC pipe and a wood block if you're planning on replacing the crank seal (which you should, while you're there), but other than that it's pretty straightforward.

Second: dude, I hate to break it to you, but you're either gonna learn how to do your own maintenance real fast, or you're going to sell it, because the SHO is not a vehicle that you can take to any mechanic, because most of them don't know what the f*#% they're doing around it. As you've just witnessed.

You really need to go to the SHOPP website, and read your own codes. Once you get them, post them here, and we'll tell you that you need to replace your crank sensor, as $5 says your code is 212.

I agree, your mechanic is garbage, just throw him away. It is most likely the CPS(crank sensor) given the tach is not working. I just replaced a CPS on an '89 SHO that hasn't ran in 3 years and it was throwing the CPS code and it fired right up for me.

Where are you located in PA? Maybe I can help you.

 

[Silver1995SHO]

I agree, your mechanic is garbage, just throw him away. It is most likely the CPS(crank sensor) given the tach is not working. I just replaced a CPS on an '89 SHO that hasn't ran in 3 years and it was throwing the CPS code and it fired right up for me.

Where are you located in PA? Maybe I can help you.

in erie, roughly an hour and a half north of you...i'd gladly pay you for your time/help.

i'm rather ******, as i wasted $100+ on this DIS module that apparently wasn't bad?

maybe i can take it off, and if it appears clean possibly return it. they had the CPS in stock at autozone, but after looking at the SHOPP link seemed a rather daunting task by myself.

i'm not mechanically feeble or anything, it's just something new and something i know nothing about (SHO) and that makes me nervous.

i'm used to tinkering with honda 4 cylinder engines where everything is visible and simple.

 

[jpSHO]

Most likely its a cam sensor. But it could be the crank sensor too. I had the same problem and symptoms (tach would drop to zero and then car would stall) you do and after replacing the crank sensor, module, computer I replaced the cam sensor and that was it.

 

[Silver1995SHO]

i checked the codes this morning, and "214" was stored.

after referencing the SHOPP site, it mentions the CID sensor which is the crank sensor if i am correct.

unfortunately, not something i think i am capable of replacing as i mentioned.

 

[jpSHO]

Code 214 could be a bad crank or cam sensor. Could also be the module but I think you said you already replaced that. On my 95 SHO I had the same code and I replaced the module, crank sensor and the computer before I did the cam sensor because when I bought the car there was a receipt in the glove box for a new cam sensor so who would have thought it was bad.

 

[Silver1995SHO]

Code 214 could be a bad crank or cam sensor. Could also be the module but I think you said you already replaced that. On my 95 SHO I had the same code and I replaced the module, crank sensor and the computer before I did the cam sensor because when I bought the car there was a receipt in the glove box for a new cam sensor so who would have thought it was bad.

i think i'm going to buy both parts (cam and crank sensor) to be on the safe side.

both parts together are right around $100 and some change...

the dealership wanted $400 alone just to replace the crank sensor (parts included), and to be truthful it's just too much for me right now.

 

[hawkeye18]

it's really not that hard. Time consuming? yes. I'd set aside about 6-8 hours for it the first time. But aside from removing the crank pulley (yank on it) it's all very straightforward, just removing nuts (and two screws). Yeah, you have to take the bottom coolant hose off, which means you have to drain the coolant system (remember, no matter how much you thought you drained from the radiator, there is more at the lower hose!), but there's nothing that requires a large amount of mechanical aptitude. Having done one myself now, I'd say I could do it in 3-4 hours. Maybe less if it's warm.

 

[jpSHO]

I would just do the cam sensor for now and if that doesn't clear the code then do the crank sensor. The crank sensor is a little harder to do and you might as well do the timing belt while doing the crank sensor. By the way stay away from dealers they'll rob you.

 

[haydenkayne]

def do the cam sensor first. its alot easier, also it does seem to be overlooked sometimes. i have 95 where i was getting a 212 and a 214, chnaged the cam sen. and everything fine. even though the dealer swore it was a crank sen. then i asked them about a 60k on the car and told me about checking brakepads and crap. then said there was no 60k for the engine. needless to say dont trust people who dont know these cars, or dealships for the most part. no wonder these companies are goin bankrupt

 

[hawkeye18]

I concur, the cam sensor is like $12 and it takes about half an hour to replace. You should def. give that a shot first.

 

[Silver1995SHO]

I concur, the cam sensor is like $12 and it takes about half an hour to replace. You should def. give that a shot first.

where would you see it for $12, as i was quoted $36.95 at autozone?

if you have a cheaper source, please share.

i am really in the market for saving a buck.

 

[Silver1995SHO]

well, i pulled the cam sensor tonight and i'm going to replace it in the morning...

jesus my hand is sore from rubbing on one of the hose clamps.

overall, it's simple...just frustrating in such a tight space.

i've got my fingers crossed...

i'm going to try and reset the ECU after the install and give it a nice drive afterwards and see what happens.