P0020 camshaft position actuator B2S1

[Subietech]

2015 sho non pp.

Recently had CEL come on. Scanned systems and returned P0020 as stated in title. Cleared DTC and had code return within a couple days. Drove with the code for a few days (no abnormal driving characteristics) and code cleared itself within a few key cycles. However within a few days of code clearing, it will return. Returns while at stop lights or light driving, not under heavy load or aggressive driving. Took car to ford dealer and they basically told me that it wasn’t a “hard set” code (even though CEL was currently on) and they couldn’t do anything and to go kick rocks. Said they couldn’t do anything unless it was a permanent code. So am I supposed to drive with an intermittent CEL on with no way of having ford fix it? I’m a master Subaru technician and was pretty appalled by this answer. Have a strong suspicion that it’s the vvt solenoid itself on its way out (or as we call it in the Subaru world the oil control valve or OCV). Any advice? Should I escalate to the service manager or even the district parts and service manager or corporate? Not happy driving a car still under warranty that ford refuses to fix.

 

[glockcoma]

I think there’s a tsb somewhere for the harness on the vct solenoid for chafing /loose pins.
I would check that out first

 

[Johnbigdog]

So, since your a tech and you know the game, play the game. Help the tech too.

We both know intermittent faults suck. You are correct on the posible causes you have done your reserch. Could have a faulted v.c.t. solenoid for the intake on bank 2 (closest to the grill). Or you could have a circuit fault. Solenoid is powered 12v and the pcm grounds the soelnoid. Pretty strait forward/easy diagnstics.

If you don't have another ford dealer to go to, call the customer relationship center. 18003923673. Let them know whats going on.

If you want to, talk to the service manager and let him/her know what is going on. (Unless this is who told you to pound sand) I'm sure you have diagnosed intermittent faults and repairs them, Ford can do it too.

 

[Subietech]

I think there’s a tsb somewhere for the harness on the vct solenoid for chafing /loose pins.
I would check that out first

They told me there were no tsb’s that applied. When I tried to find TSB’s for it in all-data (aka some-data) I didn’t see anything for my year. Is it possible that it does t apply to 15 year models?

 

[glockcoma]

They told me there were no tsb’s that applied. When I tried to find TSB’s for it in all-data (aka some-data) I didn’t see anything for my year. Is it possible that it does t apply to 15 year models?

Maybe. I’ve heard similar problems with 10-12 my. Maybe not a tsb just a reoccurring issue that’s common

 

[Subietech]

So, since your a tech and you know the game, play the game. Help the tech too.

We both know intermittent faults suck. You are correct on the posible causes you have done your reserch. Could have a faulted v.c.t. solenoid for the intake on bank 2 (closest to the grill). Or you could have a circuit fault. Solenoid is powered 12v and the pcm grounds the soelnoid. Pretty strait forward/easy diagnstics.

If you don't have another ford dealer to go to, call the customer relationship center. 18003923673. Let them know whats going on.

If you want to, talk to the service manager and let him/her know what is going on. (Unless this is who told you to pound sand) I'm sure you have diagnosed intermittent faults and repairs them, Ford can do it too.

Oh yeah, I definitely feel their pain. But I also know we would never tell a customer to just live with a CEL on. We would at least make an attempt at a repair and go from there. Anyone have pics from the service manual that might help with locating the solenoid and the appropriate wiring diagram? I want to help make it as easy on them as possible but I’m not sure if our Snap-on scanner at the shop has the ability to check freeze-frame data. I’ll find out on Monday. Maybe some freeze frame data would help point them in the right direction.

 

[Johnbigdog]

They can look at the freeze frame easier than you can. You are correct that they should have made an attempt.

Ask them why they didn't make an atempt and what your supposed to do as a customer?

 

[krewat]

Jeez. a CEL will fail you for emissions in New York State.

 

[Subietech]

They can look at the freeze frame easier than you can. You are correct that they should have made an attempt.

Ask them why they didn't make an atempt and what your supposed to do as a customer?

That’s what I assumed. I asked and their response was more or less that they didn’t want to throw parts at it without a diagnosis first. His quote was that that could “get expensive”. I’m not concerned if your inability to diagnose the issue gets expensive for your warrant department, my car is still under powertrain. They showed me the diag tree and it said “if not permanent code, no diagnosis”

 

[Johnbigdog]

That’s what I assumed. I asked and their response was more or less that they didn’t want to throw parts at it without a diagnosis first. His quote was that that could “get expensive”. I’m not concerned if your inability to diagnose the issue gets expensive for your warrant department, my car is still under powertrain. They showed me the diag tree and it said “if not permanent code, no diagnosis”

Sigh.... ask them about pinpoint test Z for intermittent concerns.

 

[Subietech]

Sigh.... ask them about pinpoint test Z for intermittent concerns.

Will do. I’ll call them back on Monday. They’re about an hour away so it’s a little inconvenient to go out there all the time. Another reason I was perturbed about being sent home with no real attempt at diagnosis

 

[SHOdded]

Jeez. a CEL will fail you for emissions in New York State.

and Maryland.

 

[SHOdded]

Lincoln dealers are better at this game usually, doesn't mean you can't find a winner among Ford dealers.

The chafing knock sensor wire can be an issue. On the Gen 5, have had at least a coupla folks report loose pins in the VCT solenoid wiring loom.

Am assuming no rattles on startup, short or prolonged. Fair?

 

[Subietech]

Lincoln dealers are better at this game usually, doesn't mean you can't find a winner among Ford dealers.

The chafing knock sensor wire can be an issue. On the Gen 5, have had at least a coupla folks report loose pins in the VCT solenoid wiring loom.

Am assuming no rattles on startup, short or prolonged. Fair?

Very slight rattle on cold start but only lasts a couple seconds. And haven’t seen a P0022 yet, only the P0020. I would’ve assumed that if I had chain stretch I would’ve seen a P0022 by now for the correlation instead of just a circuit code

 

[SHOdded]

Unfortunately the code assumtion would be flawed . The timing system on the SHO is not well codified by Ford. A slight rattle is likely innocuous but could be the beginning of timing chain stretch. If simply a filter not letting oil in fast enough on startup. That is partly why sticking with the Motorcraft fl500s is the easy solution. I have timing advance error monitoring on my Edge, I hope there is one on the SHO, but do not have PID confirmation yet.

 

[Subietech]

Unfortunately the code assumtion would be flawed . The timing system on the SHO is not well codified by Ford. A slight rattle is likely innocuous but could be the beginning of timing chain stretch. If simply a filter not letting oil in fast enough on startup. That is partly why sticking with the Motorcraft fl500s is the easy solution. I have timing advance error monitoring on my Edge, I hope there is one on the SHO, but do not have PID confirmation yet.

Lol if I can’t even get them to diag the code I seriously dread getting them to admit to and repair something like chain stretch on this thing. Oh boy!

 

[SHOdded]

Welcome to the world of the transverse Ecoboost LOL.

 

[Jesse Troili]

I am a service manager at a Ford dealership and I understand how u feel. This happened to my 2015 shop and it is definitely a connection to the vct actuator. Order two new pigtail harnesses one for each bank. You can have them verify by bringing up the pids ( parameter identification data) and watching the signal as you wiggle the connection on the valve cover. This most definitely will show them and it'll fix ot.

 

[Subietech]

Hey guys, wanted to give an update to the story. Got it back into the dealer a couple weeks later. The code had been staying on almost constantly and had actually had a little bit of a rough idle intermittently. I used my snapon scanner at work to monitor the vvt solenoids and saw bank 2 sticking and not responding the same as bank 1 which made me think I had a failing solenoid. Anyways, took it back to the dealer and they concluded that one of the pins in the connector on the solenoid had come loose and was causing the concern. They repaired the connector and I haven’t had any issues since! Just wanted to update for people who may have a similar issue in the future.

 

[SHOdded]

so glock was on the money Glad it turned out to be that simple a fix. Seems to be a 2015MY problem.