Oh No , Pedal to the floor

[SHO Anitor]

I noticed my brake poedal was getting softer and softer since I changed my back brakes. Fluid keep leaking somewhere because I was having to fill the MC everyday. My RR wheel was wet and noticed the caliper rubber seal is torn. Basically I drove around for a while without any fluid in the MC because of a leak I had. I have no brakes now, the pedal goes to the floor and pulls to the left like the abs is coming on because the RF wheel screeches like its locking. I searched the forum but could not get a positive ansewer. Any suggestions ? I am hoping its not my MC...

 

[Speedy_91_SHO]

Well, I would say that the first step would be to find and fix the leak if you already haven't. After doing that I would think that you would want to bleed the whole system to get the air out. If the MC was run dry and then filled, I would say that there would be a lot of air in the system. Remember always start farthest from the MC and start getting closer. Go in this order rear passenger, rear driver, front passenger, front driver. I don't know about you or anyone else but I like my brake pedal hard as a rock.

 

[SHO Anitor]

I started bleeding them and noticed that the pedal was still the same feel. I stopped after the back wheels were finished thinking it was my master cylinder. I may be wrong though. It was leaking from the copper ring in the RR caliper.I think I sealed it up but still get no firmness in my pedal. I will try to bleed the whole system and see what happens. Is there a way I can check the MC ? They get a little firm when turned off and pumping. Do you'll think its alot of air in the system and thats why I cant get any firmness out of the pedal ? shrug

 

[93redATX]

Keep bleeding them. It will take a LONG time if the MC was run dry. I had that happen in my old Cavlier; a brake line went out, and the previous owner just kept driving it that way. Sucked all kinds of air into the system. It actually took me quite a few tries, over the course of a week or so, to get every bit of air out of the lines.

If you've got some extra cash, I'd recommend going to AutoZone or some place similiar and getting a vacuum pump. It makes the whole process much easier, and you can easily do the process with one person, as opposed to two. This assumes you are bleeding your brakes the old fasioned way, though.

FWIW, the recommended bleeding order for the brakes is Right Rear - Left Front - Left Rear - Right Front.

If you have any more Q's, let us know thumb

 

[rangerj]

SHO Anitor,

First of all, the copper SEALING rings should be replaced with new ones anytime the bolt that holds the brake line to the caliper is loosened or removed. There is a copper ring on top of the brake line and one on the bottem. When the bolt is properly torqued the copper is compressed to form a seal.

Next, if you pumped the master cylinder dry you most likely pumped air into the lines, and the ABS valve body/pump.

Once your leak is fixed the entire brake system needs to be bled. The proper bleeding sequence is right rear, left front, left rear, right front. DO NOT let the master cylinder resevoir get empty or you will have to start all over.

If you do all four wheels and do not get a solid pedal, then bleed the master cylinder. The two lines at the master cylinder on the drivers side are loosened while pressure is applied to the brake pedal, then tightened before the pedal is let up.

You do the front one first, that is the high side, then the rear one. As fluid and air escapes you tighten the line as if it was a "bleeder". Do this several times until all the air is out.

If you still do not get a hard pedal you have air in the ABS. The correct way to bleed the ABS is to use the Rotunda ABS scanner to set the ABS cylinder pistons in the proper setting for bleeding.

You can try bleeding the ABS by opening the bleeders while pressure is applied to the brake pedal, like any other bleeder, and hope that by chance the ABS is in the right position for bleeding. Otherwise, take the car to a dealer, or a shop that has the scanner, and have the ABS bled. rangerj

 

[SHO Anitor]

rangerj:
SHO Anitor,

First of all, the copper SEALING rings should be replaced with new ones anytime the bolt that holds the brake line to the caliper is loosened or removed. There is a copper ring on top of the brake line and one on the bottem. When the bolt is properly torqued the copper is compressed to form a seal.

Next, if you pumped the master cylinder dry you most likely pumped air into the lines, and the ABS valve body/pump.

Once your leak is fixed the entire brake system needs to be bled. The proper bleeding sequence is right rear, left front, left rear, right front. DO NOT let the master cylinder resevoir get empty or you will have to start all over.

If you do all four wheels and do not get a solid pedal, then bleed the master cylinder. The two lines at the master cylinder on the drivers side are loosened while pressure is applied to the brake pedal, then tightened before the pedal is let up.

You do the front one first, that is the high side, then the rear one. As fluid and air escapes you tighten the line as if it was a "bleeder". Do this several times until all the air is out.

If you still do not get a hard pedal you have air in the ABS. The correct way to bleed the ABS is to use the Rotunda ABS scanner to set the ABS cylinder pistons in the proper setting for bleeding.

You can try bleeding the ABS by opening the bleeders while pressure is applied to the brake pedal, like any other bleeder, and hope that by chance the ABS is in the right position for bleeding. Otherwise, take the car to a dealer, or a shop that has the scanner, and have the ABS bled. rangerj

Thanks for the great info.... I think I will let brake check take care of my problem.

 

[NWGRN94MTX]

rangerj:
SHO Anitor,

First of all, the copper SEALING rings should be replaced with new ones anytime the bolt that holds the brake line to the caliper is loosened or removed. There is a copper ring on top of the brake line and one on the bottem. When the bolt is properly torqued the copper is compressed to form a seal.

Next, if you pumped the master cylinder dry you most likely pumped air into the lines, and the ABS valve body/pump.

Once your leak is fixed the entire brake system needs to be bled. The proper bleeding sequence is right rear, left front, left rear, right front. DO NOT let the master cylinder resevoir get empty or you will have to start all over.

If you do all four wheels and do not get a solid pedal, then bleed the master cylinder. The two lines at the master cylinder on the drivers side are loosened while pressure is applied to the brake pedal, then tightened before the pedal is let up.

You do the front one first, that is the high side, then the rear one. As fluid and air escapes you tighten the line as if it was a "bleeder". Do this several times until all the air is out.

If you still do not get a hard pedal you have air in the ABS. The correct way to bleed the ABS is to use the Rotunda ABS scanner to set the ABS cylinder pistons in the proper setting for bleeding.

You can try bleeding the ABS by opening the bleeders while pressure is applied to the brake pedal, like any other bleeder, and hope that by chance the ABS is in the right position for bleeding. Otherwise, take the car to a dealer, or a shop that has the scanner, and have the ABS bled. rangerj

Ranger,

Good response. I have a question about the Rotunda ABS scanner, Do you know if you have to use the Rotunda scanner to bleed the ABS system. Snap-on, MAC and OTC all offer ABS/Air Bag Scanners. But do these readers allow for bleeding the system?

Thanks

 

[TimZ]

rangerj:
If you still do not get a hard pedal you have air in the ABS. The correct way to bleed the ABS is to use the Rotunda ABS scanner to set the ABS cylinder pistons in the proper setting for bleeding.

You can try bleeding the ABS by opening the bleeders while pressure is applied to the brake pedal, like any other bleeder, and hope that by chance the ABS is in the right position for bleeding. Otherwise, take the car to a dealer, or a shop that has the scanner, and have the ABS bled. rangerj

If there is air in the ABS hydraulic control unit, you should be also be able to get it out by doing several ABS stops (legal disclaimer: find a safe place to do this - duh), and then re-bleeding. You might have to do this a few times to get the air out, but it should work.

The ABS stops should shuttle any air in the HCU either back to the MC, or to a place where you can get to it with a standard bleed.

This of course assumes that you can currently make enough brake pressure to get the system into ABS - otherwise, you'll need the Rotunda tool.