New Subject/Old Subject: Gen I Solenoids

[snowwind1990]

At this point "Red" and Snowwind have fried, 5 new solenoids.....they do not signal "off" once starter is engaged and polarize and smoke the neg. battery cable end, and sparks fly.
We have racked our brains trying to check the wiring....and we are positive we are wired correctly ((pun intended)).
That only leaves one solution unless anyone comes up with another....the Motorcraft solenoids must have a DIFFERENT signal output than the ones ours use and therefore are of no use to us...unless we want to cremate our SHOs@@@@!
madflame !!!! madflame This is all very bad indeed.
We need feedback: basically the O'Reilly guys are looking at us real funny-like at this point, "like what are you two doing with these?"
All joking aside, this is damn serious. headbang

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: snowwind1990 ]</small>

 

[snowwind1990]

Bump naughty we need some input here!!!

 

[projectSHO89]

The starter solenoid is nothing but a simple, high current relay.

When battery voltage is applied via the ignition switch turning to START, the relay is energized and power is applied to the starter motor. The relay should de-energize as soon as the switch is released from the START position.

Sounds like your ignition switch may not be releasing the electrical connection internally. You can check this with a meter on the starter solenoid coil lead under the hood. Just disconnect it from the relay, then hook up the meter to the wire and cycle the switch multiple times to make sure that there is only voltage on that wire while the switch is in START.

Steve

 

[snowwind1990]

Steve:
You are absolutely accurate.
And we have performed this test on each of the fried solenoids.
However, the conclusion is that on each and every one, the circuit remains closed and the ignition relay remains hot and is causing the problem. We hypothetically believe the solenoids are at fault since the identical situation exists with each and every solenoid and identical on each of the '90s, therefore, the solenoid recognizes Start but does not disengage, rather it continues to signal out: Start.
As unbelievable as that is, and we know until further investigation that the solenoids are the correct ones, that leaves they are defective madflame and there may be a numerous amount of them out there. We are continuing to plow through the problem.
Have you heard of similar situations across the country? eek!
We will keep the forum posted.

 

[autobahnsho]

I don't want to say you're stupid, but it sounds like installation to me.

The replacement solenoid (AC Delco I think,) I bought has 4 posts but I only use 3. The big ones are hooked to the negative battery cable and all those positive cables. Then ONE of the little posts is hooked to the key.

I don't remember which is which and it's raining out right now, or I'd go look and maybe take a picture.

How are you POSITIVE it's wired right?? After connecting/disconnecting a few times it's easy to loose track of those pesky connections... :headbang:

Maybe by tomorrow I'll take a look and get back w/ you.
I really don't believe that many solenoids would be wired backwards.

 

[snowwind1990]

Well too bad you think I am stupid.......I think you are too.
and now that we have that out of the way, the eighth solenoid was a Borg-Warner and "Red" is running like his-old-self once again.
I used a 15 year old Motorcraft replacement for "Snow" and he is running like his-old-self too.
The solenoid replacement for all Taurii including the SHO models from years 1989-1996 are all one and the same......Quoting Ford computer......
Now you tell me the definition of S T U P I D
S T U P I D
S T U P I D

 

[SHOTIME]

why dont you just upgrade to the GEN II starter?

All you do is run new wires from the battery to the starter, and use the current ground. then splice a wire onto your trigger wire from the ignition and run this down to the input on the second generation starter (selonoid is on the starter)

its much lighter and usually a bit stronger.

any other questions MaMa feel free to ask, ive subscribed to this thread.


Boys I assure you MaMa knows what she is doing.

 

[sdpatt]

Those Gen II starters are quite a bit more expensive. My original 1991 starter lasted 255,000 miles before it had a few no-start occasions. Sixty three dollars later with a lifetime warranty will cover the remainder of my SHO's miles.

 

[SHOZ123]

If the relay is sticking then it has to have juice going to. The coil if not energized will not hold the contacts in. The contacts are ususally spring loaded.

 

[snowwind1990]

Thank you, thank you.....such courtesy is refreshing!

I just can't handle the "I don't want to call you stupid", but I will anyway attitude....

Anyway, the thing is: Snowwind is OEM stock.....so duh! the Gen II starter/solenoid is a little beyond him.

Now Red could probably use this method, but YYYYY?????/Why? the Borg-Warner solenoid worked like a charm.

We were trying to illustrate this conclusion by allowing the SHOworld to work through our testing with us.,...guess that was a bad judgment on our part....just couldn't handle it. However folks: this IS THE CONCLUSION:

the currently produced new Motorcraft p/n# solenoid F5TV-14500-Rev. 7 times over would not work. Plain and simple....there are some bad ones out there.
SOLUTION: Use old Gen I Taurii solenoid(gotten from salvage) ORRRRR change brands and Borg-Warner works fine and comes with Limited Lifetime Warranty and cheaper too.

 

[rangerj]

SNOWWIND,

With parts being made in 3rd world countries by uneducated workers, it is no wonder that half the parts you buy these days have problems. I would bet that a batch of solenoinds came from "wherever" and are wired all wrong.

I have seen the problem Steve described, ie the ignition switch failure. I have seen old solenoids freeze and fail to energize when current is introduced. I have never seen the problem you have described, ie a melt down of the solenoid. The solenoid must be wired wrong, or shorted out internally, for that to happen. It has to be a manufacturing problem.

On a personal note, the Autobahn SHO is not such a bad guy, so if you give him another chance he should say he is sorry for implying you are stupid. Autobahn SHO you get one shot at straightening things out with Ma Ma M. I would take it, because you never know when you might need her mechanical expertise and advice! (Take it from me she does not take a back seat to any one on this forum when it comes to the SHO)

Ma Ma M, Where have you been gal? It has been a long time since we have heard anything from you. I hope all is well. rangerj

 

[snowwind1990]

Kinda wish Beth would have left me some smilies to click on here.......
there are a couple that are appropriate.

but to those of you kind enuff to be at my back, I am at yours too.

 

[autobahnsho]

I'm sorry, I really DON'T mean that you're stupid.

Reading what I wrote makes ME look stupid though.

What I MEANT to say was- I know you're not stupid but have you double-checked the connections?

Sometimes when things are taken apart it's easy to forget what went where. (At least for me if it's been awhile since I took it apart.)

I really am sorry.

 

[RStalveyARFF]

The Wells solenoid at autozone for $6 has always worked for me. On a sidenote, although 92+ switched to a starter mounted solenoid, the mountaineer/explorer still uses the Gen I solenoid, at least up to 01. I'll never understand Ford.

 

[autobahnsho]

PS-
Here's a blurry (and dirty!) pic of my solenoid.

http://arctic.photoisland.com/sessions/11518719160/24141747.jpg

If that doesn't work it's
www.photoisland.com
Login Id autobahnsho
Password sho
Under "Sho Maintenance"

Again, please forgive me for being very rude. I hope you can get the problem fixed soon!
(I didn't edit the original post so the rest of it makes sense to everyone else. Should I though?)