New Clutch Testing

[Art5]

Here is what happened and not the first time on this car: one late evening when i was backing out of my driveway, something popped and clutch pedal became hard and my car wouldn't come out of gear. I rolled down, stopped and shut the engine off. Put it in Gear, started the car and it started moving. I thought it was one of the springs on a disk that popped out. The reason why i thought that is that HoustinoJillian, who was one of the owners of this car before had exactly the same problem, just under different circumstances.Had a doubt that it could also be TOB. Here is what i saw today, when I picked the car up from the shop

 

[Art5]

Pictures above are CM stage I, i think. My Girlfriend says that this happened because i was drifting in the snow, which i can't belive could've happened in the snow. Here is what I bought and had installed:

 

[92sho16]

Is that pressure plate reinforced? also that looks like a aluminum flywheel, those are not recommended to be run with reinforced pressure plates. BTW 4-puck is going to be chattery.

 

[Art5]

well, the company H&R Clutch, that I bought it from, claims that this is better PP than stock. Disk is Kelvar and Ceramic with 6 springs. feels good except at the top when about to let go it feels like it want to be dropped. Yes flywheel is SS aluminium.

 

[Art5]

Is that pressure plate reinforced? also that looks like a aluminum flywheel, those are not recommended to be run with reinforced pressure plates. BTW 4-puck is going to be chattery.

what do you mean chattery and why it is not recommended to be run with Reinforced PP?

 

[sperold]

That is a curious looking clutch disc.

 

[kikkinasphalt]

i also have a 4 puck sitting here waiting to go in

 

[Art5]

it is an interesting clutch, at least was to me when i first got it. I called the company right back asking if they sure it was going to hold all that different manner of my driving with so little of material on it. They laughed and said yes and everybody calls back with that question. So, we'll see. Break in period is around 400-500 miles, but so far it didn't slipp yet and shifting is nice too, except for when i have to take of in first gear, right on the top of the pedal.

 

[Racer X]

It's going to be a **** to drive with in any appreciable traffic with that 4 puck. Stop and go happens enough on the Sprain, you'll see what he means soon enough when you're caught in it one day.

Using a HD pressure plate is not recommended with the aluminum flywheel because the increased spring weight is enough to change the geometry of the flywheel when depressing the pedal.

And on drifting in the snow... I hope you have a TBD or an LSD, because if you don't you're quickly going to find out what SHOBoom! means. Not to mention that your new clutch will be ruined by the newly liberated transmission fluid in the process.

And speaking on the transmission fluid, double check with your mechanic that he used a quality Dexron III/ Mercon fluid, and NOT GEAR OIL which will quickly and permanently ruin the MTX-IV used in the SHO.

 

[Art5]

It's going to be a **** to drive with in any appreciable traffic with that 4 puck. Stop and go happens enough on the Sprain, you'll see what he means soon enough when you're caught in it one day.

Using a HD pressure plate is not recommended with the aluminum flywheel because the increased spring weight is enough to change the geometry of the flywheel when depressing the pedal.

And on drifting in the snow... I hope you have a TBD or an LSD, because if you don't you're quickly going to find out what SHOBoom! means. Not to mention that your new clutch will be ruined by the newly liberated transmission fluid in the process.

And speaking on the transmission fluid, double check with your mechanic that he used a quality Dexron III/ Mercon fluid, and NOT GEAR OIL which will quickly and permanently ruin the MTX-IV used in the SHO.

ok, sd got trany, I have LSD, but i don't know what TBD means.Trany was rebuilt about 45000 miles ago.
I didn't understand what spring weight are you talking about. Is it disk springs?
To tell you the truth, there's not that much traffic on Sprain, exept when there is an accident, but even with any other clutch i can't drive SHO in traffic. I get frastrated, unless i can just use 2nd gear and not to damage my clutch. And anothing thing is that i hope very soon, i wouldn't have to drive this car everywhere, but for pleasure.
Now, as for fluid, I think mechanic didn't even drain oil out of it, but i will check tomorrow. Hopefully it still has that high quality fluid that was put in there before.

 

[Racer X]

He replaced the clutch, right? Axle comes out, oil comes out. Double check the oil he used.

Good to hear you have a TBD (Torque Biasing Differential), as I don't think there was an LSD on the market 45k ago (someone feel free to correct me on that).

And I wasn't talking about the disc spring (what ejected on your failed clutch disc), but the Pressure Plate spring. Many HD plates come with a much heavier spring.

 

[Art5]

stupid me, forgot about that part about axels. I just know I have Quaiff in my mtx. I thought it was LSD. is it listed in alldata or in the book about trany oil? Because if it says to use regular gear oil, that would be my fault.
Oh, by the way, say your pictures of your crash, looks like the accident i had in my 92 when i had mine, but mine was worse and on Bronx River pky. It is funny, because i looked at the picture and then picture of divider and remembered my story.

 

[Racer X]

Both Alldata and the service manual should state Dex III/ Mercon. You should still double check with him, though. If anything, reaching into the fill hole and checking the color of the fluid with your fingertip should suffice. Go back if it's not red.

And the accident... that happened when I lived up in Yonkers still. Fell asleep at the wheel where the Cross County turns into the Saw Mill Parkway SB. I woke up coming into that turn at 75... things didn't work out so well as you can see.

 

[Art5]

Both Alldata and the service manual should state Dex III/ Mercon. You should still double check with him, though. If anything, reaching into the fill hole and checking the color of the fluid with your fingertip should suffice. Go back if it's not red.

And the accident... that happened when I lived up in Yonkers still. Fell asleep at the wheel where the Cross County turns into the Saw Mill Parkway SB. I woke up coming into that turn at 75... things didn't work out so well as you can see.

thanks for the tip. It is very hard to find reliable mechanic for these cars. I do most of my work myself, but I don't have garage anymore, so doing this kind of job on my back this time of the year is not the best thing to do.

sorry to hear that you fell asleep, but glad that it was just a 'scratch' comparing to what could happen. In my case, i was still doing work on my car and that night my rear caught before front. I thought it would be bad luck to repair that car and stripped it for parts in other 2 i had at that time. I had over 300000 ;miles on that car and engine and tranny were original too.

 

[shonuffmine]

Good to see that you are up and running again and posting some more.How bout ya pass on the info on the clutch set-up,like company info and specs or maybe their website addy. Thanks

 

[gmorrell]

well, the company H&R Clutch, that I bought it from, claims that this is better PP than stock. Disk is Kelvar and Ceramic with 6 springs. feels good except at the top when about to let go it feels like it want to be dropped. Yes flywheel is SS aluminium.

That's a bone stock Valeo cover and pressure plate assembly. Even in your blurry picture, I can see that it has stock Valeo square-end straps and the way the strap rivet heads are set is factory Valeo. The little round indent in the middle of the rivets on the pressure plate ears also tells me it's factory Valeo.

If the diaphragm pivot rivets have a little "V/A" embossed in the heads, then this whole cover is bone stock Valeo.

I've drilled apart and rebuilt more SHO/Valeo clutches than you can imagine, I know what they look like and I know how Valeo builds them, right down to the drill sizes needed to cut the rivet shanks out of the Iron.

Here's my prediction: With that aggressive 4-puck disc and the engagement shock loads it imparts to the pressure plate, the pressure plate straps on that cover are not going to live long.

Enjoy that grabby clutch while it lasts.

 

[Art5]

Good to see that you are up and running again and posting some more.How bout ya pass on the info on the clutch set-up,like company info and specs or maybe their website addy. Thanks

I cannot say that this is the best clutch I ever had, untill i test it, but, sure i can provide all the info about it.
I previously wrote name of the company wrong. Here is their website http://www.hrclutch.com/
They are located in PA, close to Philadelphia. They make custom clutches for your specs. I belive that flywheel side had ceramic material and PP side has kelvar. 6 springs, and new style TOB with sleeve. pedal is soft, but it does feel like it wants to dropped at the top though. I paid 325 shipped to my door and it took them less than a week to make it and ship it to me. when they are not too busy, it takes them less then that.

 

[Art5]

That's a bone stock Valeo cover and pressure plate assembly. Even in your blurry picture, I can see that it has stock Valeo square-end straps and the way the strap rivet heads are set is factory Valeo. The little round indent in the middle of the rivets on the pressure plate ears also tells me it's factory Valeo.

If the diaphragm pivot rivets have a little "V/A" embossed in the heads, then this whole cover is bone stock Valeo.

I've drilled apart and rebuilt more SHO/Valeo clutches than you can imagine, I know what they look like and I know how Valeo builds them, right down to the drill sizes needed to cut the rivet shanks out of the Iron.

Here's my prediction: With that aggressive 4-puck disc and the engagement shock loads it imparts to the pressure plate, the pressure plate straps on that cover are not going to live long.

Enjoy that grabby clutch while it lasts.

thanks for info. To be honest, i liked my valeo and sasch clutches when i had them on other cars, but the only problem i had is that their discs were either melting or burning. I want to see how this one is and maybe I'll be swapping the whole eng/tranny again soon to something more crazy, since there are more high quality parts available now.

 

[zak]

Using a HD pressure plate is not recommended with the aluminum flywheel because the increased spring weight is enough to change the geometry of the flywheel when depressing the pedal.

And on drifting in the snow... I hope you have a TBD or an LSD, because if you don't you're quickly going to find out what SHOBoom! means. Not to mention that your new clutch will be ruined by the newly liberated transmission fluid in the process.

A question, do you mean the higher spring forces (not weight) cause bending of the flywheel and thus alter the stack height/release?

And to add to your snow comments which are quite valid - the slip then stick phenomena when fooling around in the snow (wheels spinning, then suddenly grabing on wet as opposed to slick pavement) could well be expected to cause liberation of a disc spring due to the sudden contraction as the load train through axles, differential and gearbox snaps the opposite direction. It can also snap axles (more like ice onto dry pavement in that case).

zak

 

[drivinhard]

has/does anybody actually MAKE a bigger spring for the valeo plate? SHO Shop used to just double them up, and Centerforce just changed the fulcrum point.

I agree with gary, straps look stock. I think most of the failures were in the rivets (least the ones I saw) not the straps, but you almost have to go to a bigger strap with a bigger rivet (or cap screw like gary used to do), as there ain't much "strap" left on the ends with a bigger fastner going through the center.

I've always said all SHO clutches suck, some just suck a little less than others