Need help w/ auto transmission -- PLEASE!!!

[governor]

Hi All !! I'm new to the forum, although I've had this SHO for several years.
I'm having a problem with the automatic transmission on my 93 Taurus SHO (3.2 L V6)
The transmission was slipping frequently, so we had it replaced with a used one that had 60,000 miles on it (our car has 150,000).

It works better now......however, if accelerating rapidly, there will be a heavy **** (clunk) when it goes from first to second gear, which we can feel and hear. oh_my

If accelerating slowly, this does not happen. Under rapid acceleration, all other gears work just fine-- the problem ONLY happens when going from first to second.

This transmission has a 30-day warranty, and we'd like to replace it, if that's necessary..... but it was a ship-to from another state, installed by our favorite ASE-certified mechanic with 40 years' experience. So if it can be solved easily or cheaply, we'd rather do that than go through the hastle of returning it.

Our mechanic thinks it might have something to do with the computer or sensors-- something he is not able to tackle.


Have any of you ever had this problem, and/or have any idea what might cause this? I'd be glad to hear any thoughts at all on the subject.

shrug

Thanks for your interest!

~Gerry

<small>[ February 10, 2003, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: governor ]</small>

 

[Silver Bullet]

If it was me, and my tranny started doing that... I would have that thing back to the company sooo fast it would still be warm from the running!! Especially after spending all that money for it. It does sound to me like it has a serious gear problem. Maybe the planetary gears are out of of whack??

<small>[ February 10, 2003, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Silver Bullet ]</small>

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

i agree, a brand new tranny shouldnt be doing that. and while it may very well be a sensor, unless you have someone else here you trust who can do the job cheaply and quickly you may want to bring the car back to your original mechanic before the warranty is up. did he replace your vss when he did the tranny?

 

[Mr Anonymous]

It's probably just a weak 1-2 accumulator spring. It can be replaced (albeit difficultly) with the tranny still in the car. You didn't mention how much you ended up paying, but realistically on a used tranny with 60K you'll be lucky to see a year (maybe two) of life -- and I wouldn't expect it to last more than ~40k additional miles.

 

[governor]

Thanks SilverBullet & BlackOnBlack -- I'm thinking I should get the tranny replaced, too. Problem is, a lot of that cost is labor-- and I bought the tranny myself.... so I'd be asking the mechanic to pull it out and replace it with another one. And I don't know what we would do about the cost of his time there. It might be cheaper in the long run to figure out what's wrong with this one and just fix it, if it's a small problem. See what I mean?

BlackOnBlack..... what is the VSS? Sorry, I've just never heard that term. I'd like to ask the mechanic about that.

 

[governor]

Thanks Shoooo. I'll ask the mechanic to check that out, too. In spite of all his experience, he's always been intimidated by this SHO and its high performance engine with complicated parts and assembly. So he seems to make everything sound like more of a problem with this car than with most automobiles.

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

Gerry, the VSS is a sensor that sits on top of the tranny housing. it controls the speedometer and the cruise control as well as shifting characteristics. now it doesnt necessarily sound like thats your problem because characterstically when your VSS goes youll notice when the car warms up it shifts like garbage and you lose your cruise control, but when the car is cold it runs great. just something to think about though. but yes, check out the ideas on the accumulator spring. the VSS is around an 8 hour job to do on your own (just so you have an idea of the difficulty rating) but it can be done with the tranny in the car. good luck! keep us posted!
Bob

 

[governor]

I've been sick for a couple days, so just getting back to this. I found the website that tells how to check the codes, and finally managed to get out there to do it. (It's COLD here in Illinois at this time of year!!)

Here are the codes that came up in our test:

327 - EGR feedback signal is/was low
551 - Problem in Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) solenoid/circuit
639 - Transmission Speed Sensor (TSS) circuit fault
124 - TP voltage was higher than expected

The TSS obviously would affect the transmission, but would it cause the problem we described? Is that the same thing as the VSS you were talking about, Bob? You mentioned that if that is the problem, it will shift worse when warmed up than when the engine is cold...... and I would say that is somewhat true with this car. We aren't losing cruise control, though.


I'd also like to know where the above things (EGR, IMRC and TSS) are located, and how to get to them. Can any or all of these be repaired without removing the transmission?

Also..... what is TP voltage?

Jeezzzzz..... eek! I can't believe all the new stuff on cars. It boggles my mind; I used to work on old Packards, Fords & Chevies built in the 50's, and they never had any of this stuff!!

Your help is much appreciated !!!

Gerry

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

Gerry, glad to see youre feeling better, lemme see if i can help out on this at all.

the TSS is the same thing as the VSS, it sits on top of the tranny and can be done without removing it, but its a pain in the ass. now since your having the shift problem when the car is warm it does sound like a symptom, but its tough to really tell from here im sure you realize.

the TP is your throttle position sensor (usually called TPS), it sits on your throttle body, youll see a wiring harness going into a little black box staring you right in the face if youre looking in the engine bay. takes 5 minutes to change and is only $20.

as far as the EGR feedback code, you need to check your EGR valve, its on the right side of the intake manifold, right back corner actually. it sits towards the firewall and is kind of circular with two bolts holding it on the intake manifold. it should have a vaccum line on the back of it, if not that may be the problem. since it doesnt say "EGR flow insufficient" it just sounds like its not actuating, whereas the one i quoted would mean its clogged.

im really unsure of the IMRC circuit. you should do a search for the code number and the name of the condition to see if it comes up.

hope this helps a little.
Bob

<small>[ February 13, 2003, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: BlackOnBlackATX ]</small>

 

[Mike Kopstain]

SHOooo:
It's probably just a weak 1-2 accumulator spring. It can be replaced (albeit difficultly) with the tranny still in the car. You didn't mention how much you ended up paying, but realistically on a used tranny with 60K you'll be lucky to see a year (maybe two) of life -- and I wouldn't expect it to last more than ~40k additional miles.

My experience has been that a week 1-2 accumulator spring will result in a rough shift when under normal acceleration, but a normal shift under hard acceleration.

This sounds like the standard FWD Ford tranny issues.

 

[governor]

Thanks, Bob. You have been a tremendous help on this.... and thanks to mikey'staurus for those instructions on the computer codes, too. The sites I had seen before had a very complicated system for getting the codes, and this was very easy !!

I think I can handle the EGR and the TPS, but I'll have to have my mechanic work on the TSS. It seems like a better plan than trying to remove and return that tranny. I have no idea what the mechanic would charge to do all that work, but I'm sure it would be more than just fixing the TSS.

Since there are computer codes coming up, we're going to work on those first, SHOooo -- and then check into the 1-2 accumulator spring if these repairs don't solve the problem. I'll be glad if we can keep this thing going another year, and then use it for trade-in on a newer car. But what an automobile this was, in its earlier days!!

I'll let you know how it all works out !
Thanks again!!

~Gerry

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

anytime Gerry, let us know what comes of it all. i think the going rate to do the VSS is around $250, maybe someone else can verify this for me. good luck!

 

[RCM]

The TSS (transmission speed sensor- 7M101) is definitely not the same as the VSS (vehicle speed sensor- 9E731).
The TSS is located on the driver's side of the transmission, just behind the side pan and above the output shaft. It's easily replaced through the wheelwell.

Russ

BlackOnBlackATX:

the TSS is the same thing as the VSS, it sits on top of the tranny and can be done without removing it, but its a pain in the ass. now since your having the shift problem when the car is warm it does sound like a symptom, but its tough to really tell from here im sure you realize.

Bob

<small>[ February 14, 2003, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: mrmann7 ]</small>

 

[governor]

Hello everybody!!

Just coming back on here to tell you the happy ending. Since we checked the codes, and could tell that it had something to do with the sensors relative to the transmission, and knew that it could possibly be repaired or adjusted more easily than replacing...... we took the car to a transmission shop.

I called them and told them about the codes, and they estimated it would cost about $100 to replace the TSS. The actual cost was only $40 thumbs_u !! They didn't have to replace anything! He said the turbine speed sensor was not connected, and the MLPS (some type of sensor?) needed to be adjusted properly. Also there were three loose bolts.

So it seems our mechanic just didn't quite finish the job, but there is nothing wrong with the transmission itself. It shifted smoothly, and performed just great when I drove it home!!

I'm glad we checked the codes and didn't try to remove that tranny and ship it back!! What a mess that would have been!

THANK YOU !!!! beer

Gerry

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Good news indeed! FWIW, MLPS=Manual Lever Position Sensor -- it tells the PCM the position of the shifter.