Meth

[nw2013sho]

Hi all, first post but been reading all posts for a month or so. I have a 2013 SHO non-PP that I am getting ready to mod. The Livernois programmer and tune are a given and will be on order as soon as they are released. Exhaust and CAI seem to be mostly sound and appearance with negligible HP/TQ gain so they are not in my immediate plans. My question is on meth injection. I understand that bringing the air-fuel temp down will allow higher boost or lower octane and still provide good combustion. Does meth actually help at all if neither of these factors are adjusted? Does meth only provide more power if your tune knows it is there and ups boost? In most turbo application I have seen meth is a big performance contributor. Trying to figure out if that will be the case with my SHO.

 

[bigPelo]

Meth or water-meth injection cool down the air intake charges and prevents knock. So it allows to run with more boost and aggressive timing. You need a tune to control the quantity of meth injected, change the engine timing and increase turbo boost pressure. I don't know if it changes air/fuel ratio though...

AFAIK, for Subaru cars modified by my tuner, water-meth is 50-50% and injection starts around 13 psi of boost. It really helps increase engine output without sacrificing reliability. But be sure not to run of an empty tank of meth! And it requires distilled water too.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

It does change A/F ratio, especially Alky Control 100% methanol systems. Most EB engine W/M systems start spraying at around 8 PSI. They use #7 and # 10 nozzles, and require tuning to maximize performance. I saw MCT (Manifold Charge Temp) actually go below ambient temp while dynoing my Flex. Was using approx 75% Methanol/ 25% water spraying thru a #10 nozzle. At 75 deg F. I dyno'd 369 hp & 409 lb torque, both at around 5,000 RPM as I recall. Not bad for our parasitic AWD system.

 

[bigPelo]

At 75 deg F. I dyno'd 369 hp & 409 lb torque, both at around 5,000 RPM as I recall. Not bad for our parasitic AWD system.

Wheel horse power and torque? Impressive!

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Yes... This was on a new AWD Dynojet (linx -2 ?) in Naples, FL... Same exact dyno that Livernois has.

 

[SoCalSHO]

^^^^Bob is our meth guy^^^^

 

[bpd1151]

Wheel horse power and torque? Impressive!

Bob is our meth guy

Ahem.....

(refer to my sig below)

 

[PopolZ]

Ordered a kit from Torrie last night... you guys with your HP and Torque talk are ruining me.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Just make sure you use at least 49% Methanol in you Meth Kit.....and be consistent in what you use with the tunes he provides. You will be very happy with Torrie and his tunes for your W/M system. His response time is exceptional...

 

[Paulford8]

Just posted in another thread regarding my exhaust thoughts. Ran .17 faster after exhaust in similar if not hotter air temp. I think it is not so much peak HP as it helps your turbos spool faster if you can get rid of the air.

I hope to follow in the footsteps of these guys that have already installed methanol myself. We can thank these early guys for LMS & Unleashed having pretty good canned tunes ready.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

One comment I failed to state... Spraying with W/M will actually decrease performance if tune is not designed for it. That is not a bad thing, as it makes your engine more reliable, even if the performance is down, by it's cooling capabilities.

Also, when I eliminated the 3rd cat & the mid-muffler, with the NESHO X-Pipe, we saw boost rise approximately 1 PSI, just from this mod, which means it free's up the turbos.

So the right exhaust design will definitely help, but no where near the bang for the buck that the basic tune package provides.

 

[TurboQueef]

Meth or water-meth injection cool down the air intake charges and prevents knock. So it allows to run with more boost and aggressive timing. You need a tune to control the quantity of meth injected, change the engine timing and increase turbo boost pressure. I don't know if it changes air/fuel ratio though...

AFAIK, for Subaru cars modified by my tuner, water-meth is 50-50% and injection starts around 13 psi of boost. It really helps increase engine output without sacrificing reliability. But be sure not to run of an empty tank of meth! And it requires distilled water too.

Another Subaru owner here.. I am running meth/water on a 2005 STi .. just took it to the track on Friday and ran a 12.09 @ 115 on a very conservative tune.

It works great but you need to be very careful if using for power without some kind of failsafe. (if the meth kit fails for some reason and you are running higher boost and more aggressive timing.. engine could detonate and self destruct).

OOO.. reason I am here is I ordered a 2013 SHO for my wife... should arrive next week !!!

Here is video of the 12.09 pass on meth: http://youtu.be/f3J1Qh-FQ58

 

[TurboQueef]

I am currently running meth/water in my STi. I have it tuned very conservatively to avoid engine damage if the system fails. I am planning to install the AEM meth/water fail safe on the Subaru so I can get more aggressive with the tune.

My question: Are you running any kind of failsafe system when running meth/water in the SHO's?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Those of us that use the stock Windshield washer fluid tank, have the stock low fluid indicator. There may be better alternatives, however. Guess one could add a pressure sensitive switch to the line between the pump and the nozzle...

 

[Bighead Super T]

Just curious what the livernoise meth inj. kit would equal in octain rating of gasoline.
For instance if I ran 100 or 110 actane would it equal a meth inj. system and what if any differance would there be?

 

[peachback50]

Hello all, I was hoping someone could steer me in the right direction. I plan on buying a Water/Meth injection kit along with a Programmer in the next few weeks and I’m undecided on where to buy them. If I go with Livernois it will coast about $1,704.99, Livernois Motorsports 2010+ Taurus SHO, Flex, MKS, MKT "Alky" Methanol Injection Kitis $905.00 and MyCal Tuning Device for EcoBoost Vehicles $799 while Unleashed will cost about $928.00 Ecoboost Water / Methanol Kit w/ Custom Ecoboost Calibration $299, SCT iTSX programmer $499, and the 3Bar sensor $119. There is a huge difference in prices, almost $800 that I can’t explain. They are the two best companies for Ecoboost performance and both have great reputations. I know the Livernois kit was made specifically for the SHO but isn’t the Unleashed version as well? I don’t wish to hurt anyone feelings but what gives? Are there parts missing from the Unleashed Water/ Meth kit and I will have to buy them? Are the parts from a less reliable supplier? Higher profits for Livernois? Am I not understanding something ?
If anyone can assist or better explain the parts and price please do.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

The Livernois Methanol kit is from Alky Control. Livernois provides the specs and the mounting bracket. It is designed to run at 100% Methanol through a #10 nozzle, and works thru a controller. Torrie's system is spec'd from Roe Racing and is designed to use 49% methanol, using a boost pressure sensor that turns it on at a specific boost pressure (set to 8 PSI but adjustable) and spraying thru a #7 nozzle. The Livernois system would put out more power, provided your vehicle is properly tuned. It is best with this system to have your vehicle dyno tuned for the system.

As for the SCT Tuners and tunes. Torrie charges less for the tuner and his tuner package. The SCT Tuners are identical. I bought the Livernois tunes as an add on for my system (when not using methanol spray) for $250., which is what I believe Torrie also charges for the tunes, if you have a SCT Tuner.

There are other alternatives. Devil's Own makes a good system that also uses a controller and braided lines. You can go directly to Alky Control and talk with Julio, and buy direct. I would guess that Torrie would work with you on logging your tuning and having him modify your tunes based on your Methanol system.
He might charge a small fee, but it's worth talking with him about it.

Once tuned, the most important thing is to always run the same % methanol charge for the tune you are using. Varying the charge will drastically affect the Lambda and possible other things.

 

[Phoenix]

the title of this thread is misleading.

 

[SeanMc]

What happens when to much is injected.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

HEY... HOW DID YOU GET MY PICTURE??? You are violating my civil rights and you will probably get me arrested.... OMG!!!! Can you tell which eye is glass and which eye is just glassy???? I would smile more but my teeth are missing (mostly)....

Sippin while I'm Strippin!!!!!!